Texas Schools (Tyler, Galveston: loan, purchase, middle school)

[etexbill]

I think that you will find that education all over the US is in a downward spiral. I just read yesterday that over 30 percent of COLLEGE GRADUATES in the USA cannot read and summarize a book. Take a look at where we rank in education now compared to some other countries. Scary.

[fish2026]

GO PADGE -- umm I had to spend a couple of years in NY in high school and every student had to take the SAT---------- umm next excuse? lol

Padge theres lots of stuff about NY I dont like - mostly the taxes - but I do remember that the kids could read and write significantly better than they do here. Sorry.

[robinhood]

etexbill - You are correct, and the reason for this is that the state puts the pressure on for TAKS results only. They don't seem to care about anything else other than standardized test results, to test the teachers' performance. Our students leave high school, not really prepared for college, but prepared for acing standardized tests.

[musicman107]

Having been a Texas Public High School teacher for 30 years,
I've seen standardized tests come and go..
TABS (Texas Assessment of Basic Skills)
TEAMS (Texas Assessment of Mininum Skills)
TAAS (Texas Assessment of Academic Skills)....
and probably others I've forgotten about.....

Now, TAKS, Texas Asssessment of Knowledge Skills.

The PROS and CONS:

PROS: TEKS ---- TAKS questions/problems are based upon Texas "TEKS" (Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills...a statewide curriculum)...finally there are fairly clearly delineated SKILLS that students are asked to demonstrate for the main subject areas at each grade level.
TAKS is MANY steps above TABS, TEAMS, and TAAS, which were all virtually testing 'rote-memorization.'
TAKS is much less rote-memorization and more oriented toward "appllication of skills" than any tests we've had in the past.
For many of the questions, students actually have to analyze given information and draw conclusions....actually think and process.
At least now, the expected 'skills' are fairly well delineated.

CONS: Again, TAKS way far from perfect, but much more challenging than any of its predecessors.
I'd like to see how many of our state legislators could pass all of the TAKS tests now required to graduate from high school.
It IS a dilemma: How to assess students to see if they have actually learned concepts and able to apply them to a new, given situation by way of a pencil and paper test?
We DO need to know the answer to the question: "How do we know they've learned anything?" THAT is a challenge.

Past years of actual TAKS tests are availble for public view at Texas Education Agency's (TEA) website, under "Released TAKS Tests."

Can't recall his name, but a U.S. University President was quoted (as close to his words as I can recall): "What test scores show is only who the best takers are.....and that scares the h*ll out of me."
When our HS graduates enter the workplace, the boss is not going to come in and ask them rote-memory questons from their 12 years of schooling.
They will expect them not only to be able to do: reading, writing, and arithmetic, but actually be able to APPLY these SKILLS to new situatons, be creative problem-solvers, be "self-starters", etc.
Although TAKS tests are the highest level thinking skills asseseements (for those familiar with Bloom's Taxonomy of thinking skills) Texas has ever had, it's still not going to do the trick.
These tests may very well raise the HS dropout rate.
The other dilemma: Texas teachers are under INCREDIBLE pressure to "teach to the TAKS test," as they know, (and even more importantly: the school administratotrs know), that the scores are going to published in the newspapers
Even worse, there has been proposed legislation to financially reward campuses who yield the highest TAKS scores.
My heart goes out to teachers everywhere.
I feel their pain.

[GoPadge]

Eh, from what I found at the Collegeboard.com the reverse trend is actually true. The top region for participation is the Northeast, followed by the Mid-Atlantic and costal Southern states and the Pacific Coast. The only other regions represented with participation over 50% were Indiana, Texas and Alaska. The "bottom of the barrel" states were the Midwest, Southwest and interior (or Central timezone) South.

Of course based solely on total scores, you only find one state over 50% participation in the top 25.

My point being that, based solely on SAT scores for 2003, there isn't as big of a gap between say New York (82% 1006) and South Carolina (59% 989) as there is between Texas (57% 993) and say North Dakota (4% 1215).

(Of course that doesn't take into account states where the ACT is more frequently used....)

[Trainwreck20]

Hmmm...to jump in at the end of a discussion, I spent some time teaching and my whole family has been (or still is) a teacher. Yes, there are problems in how we teach and how we test, but the one item that we noticed that seems to keep coming up is how we parent. It is unbelievable (or maybe not) how many parents 'help' (read 'do') their childrens homework. Not that the parents sit down and fill in the answers, but they hold the child's hand and make sure they do it and correct them as they go. It sounds like a good idea, but I run into so many children who do not take any resposibility or have any initiative because they are not forced (allowed?) to have any. Understandable, up to a certain age, but the school I taught at had a specific plan for transferring more resposibility to the children during the 5th grade year. The parents nearly had a conniption when the kids were not allowed to make up below average grades or missed work.

Of course, this is my personal opionion, but I very rarely found a parent who ever believed that a short-coming at school might be due to something other than the teaching. What is also interesting is that some of the upper middle class and upper class parents were the worst 'offenders' in over-protecting their child and potentially limiting their childs development. It is very hard to let a child 'fail', but it is a part of growing up.

I could go on and on, but this is a hugely complex issue with many facets, none of which is individually responsible for the state of the education system. Besides, I think I am off-topic by now .

[momof2dfw]

Trainwreck, I have to agree with you. As I said before I hear plenty from my sis that teaches and all of my friends that teach. This is why I SO LOVE(D) the G&T programs that my oldest has been in. Most of their projects were/are done IN CLASS. They are put into groups and each person is given a certain title that corresponds to a specific task that must be done for the project. They may have to look something up on the computer at home or bring something from home but that IS IT when it comes to the home/parent involvement for their projects. In 1st grade they did do a few at home and the teachers ALWAYS knew which ones were done by the parents. I cracked up over my child when she told me how her presentation went down. When asked if she did it all by herself she answered "no". The teacher then asked what part was done by someone else and by whom she responded, "my mom went to the store and bought the stuff I needed". At least she was honest (and I am glad she did not drive herself to the store, ). So from day one in first grade she has been taught how to work in a group w/ others to get a task done. I tell the teachers right up that I DO NOT do their homework as I have done my time and I am out of school now it is their turn. They can not possibly learn if someone else is doing it for them. I also do NOT get parents that go over their kids homework and make the correct everything. At times I will just say that they need to go back over and check things but then I still will not tell them what problem or anything. That is it. If they get easy A's w/ me standing over them making sure they get everything right they are only going to be set up to fail later in life. I'm not going to be there when they take their TAKS, ACT, SAT or college exams.

I also agree w/ you about the way it seems that the more affluent the parents are the more they tend to over-protect and want their kids to be THE BEST at all costs. I don't go for that at all. They need to learn to make wise decisions on their own and the sooner they learn to do so and how the wrong decision hurts them the better off they will be. The mistakes that a kindergartner and first grader make are at their level and if they can deal w/ it then they can deal w/ it when they are in high school, college or an adult. It is ALL a learning process.

[fish2026]

None of this is an excuse for why Texas and the South score lower and its not just test scores- go to a school in Texas and another in a blue state and you will see the difference in both ability and attitude. Texans didn't start whining about the validity of the test scores until we scored near the bottom - then all of a sudden- they arent a valid measure. Bush and Perry dont like these tests either------ anyone think they would pass em? lol

[Cathy4017]

Of course, this is my personal opionion, but I very rarely found a parent who ever believed that a short-coming at school might be due to something other than the teaching. What is also interesting is that some of the upper middle class and upper class parents were the worst 'offenders' in over-protecting their child and potentially limiting their childs development. It is very hard to let a child 'fail', but it is a part of growing up.

AMEN to that one.

I am an ex-teacher who left after 3 years (West TX) in '77 to go into the business world...and I never looked back.

How much worse it is now than back then.

To be QUITE blunt.....many kids nowadays expect to be entertained and coddled to.

They are going to be in for a huge shock when they get out in the real world......

IMHO, there is NO job more thankless.

[Runum]

go to a school in Texas and another in a blue state and you will see the difference in both ability and attitude.

The attitude comes from home. I work on their ability everyday but I can't overcome that negative attitude. Texans may score low on the tests, I really haven't paid attention to that. The scores will not rise until the parents expect more of their children and are willing to let them fail, learn, and be out of their comfort zones sometimes. Most teachers I know are working their butts off everyday to raise student expectations and success. Texas parents say they want more but are not willing to back it up with actions. Talk is cheap.