Texas Gov. Rick Perry is a genius = Arm school teachers (Houston: school district, law)

[lucknow]

Originally Posted by tofurkey

It's a start, Dopo.

I say use a part of the school cafeteria as a coffee shop for cops. Arrange for a stream of them all day. Include donuts. Also provides an opportunity for socializing law enforcement with students, including those in gangs that would think they can beat down teachers.

Include a space where the kids can interact with the cops. Expand as appropriate.

The first good idea I have seen on the subject.

[augiedogie]

Its a good idea, if the district in large enough. However in small towns, where you only have a few police on duty all day, its too expensive.

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Ok, there's a positive side .... kids will behave

Not unless they're taught respect for authority. Palestinian children are taught to throw rocks at men with machine guns.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by 88txaggie

Reb, what about what I posted earlier? This IMO, is a problem with concealed carry in a school:

Originally Posted by 88txaggie

An out of control kid in a classroom....more likely. What does out of control mean? Well, it depends. Could be a tantrum, screaming and crying. Could be a fit including running around throwing things. Could be an escalation to throwing furniture around.....not common, but it happens. Could be a threatening kid - bowing up on a teacher or other student. So now let's play what if - what if that teacher had a gun concealed on her person for the rare, one in a million chance of a rampage shooter. Kid with known behavior problems and escalation tendencies begins to ramp up. Teacher goes through the behavior plan, kid not responding. Kid threatens to __________. At what point is it determined that there is imminent danger such that a weapon is called for?

Thank you for raising some legitimate points, but you are making some leaping presumptions, I would say. Let me start by noting (as I did earlier, and on another thread), I have taught special ed kids for going on 15 years, and ten of them were with kids who had severe behavior issues. And I don't mean little 1st graders throwing temper tantrums, I mean big high school kids, some of whom are now in prison for violent crimes.

I can tell you now (of course, this is only my experience), the only thing most of them respect is force. Or, better put, the potential for force to be used. And besides, most of them are not the type likely to go off on a shooting rampage, anyway. They blow up, get puffy, cuss like hell, get in your face...and the response from the teacher? Well, obviously, you make it clear you are not intimidated, and take him/her down with non-lethal force if it comes to that. And I have been in my share of those type situations.

Do you see where I am going with this? A bit of calm response will -- even when applied physically -- generally disarm their outbursts. On the other hand? Those who come prepared to mass kill their peers and teachers and such, are going to come with their own arsenal ahead of time, and not waste time disarming one of several teachers they know to be armed.

In fact, that last part is a subject unto itself. If Texas law permits individual school districts (such as in Harrold, Texas) the right to allow those teachers with a CCL to carry at work? Then there is no reason why the kids should need to know who does and who doesnt (actually carry, that is).

Anyway, it still comes down to this. There is no easy answer, and there are plenty of problems. But I hope that common sense wins out in the end. Because a dozen lives could be ended before the police arrived. And only the armed teacher could stop it.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

I would like to see someone respond to this teacher's post.

It's very easy to ask someone else to do more work at their job, but exactly how realistic is this plan? What if the teachers refuse to undergo the necessary training and responsibility that this requires? Are you required at your white collar job to also provide security in the office?

I think you are missing a very important point here, VBG. That is to say, the teachers who would be armed (if they chose), would be those who already have a CCl license within the State of Texas. Thus, having had to prove their ability with a handgun and are versed in Texas law concerning the use of Deadly Force.

[verybadgnome]

Bideshi's comment reminds me of Israel. There, in Jerusalem at least, armed security is not only at all the tourist sites, but also restaurants which sometimes include a security fee in the check. You are always aware of their presence. In Tel Aviv the situation is quite different and extra security is not apparent. I for one would rather live in a society that such security is not necessary, much the same way that I would prefer to live in a neighborhood that doesn't require me to have bars on my windows. If it gets to the point where we need security in most public places, I would say that our society has lost a great deal. That I would rather look elsewhere to live.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

I think you are missing a very important point here, VBG. That is to say, the teachers who would be armed (if they chose), would be those who already have a CCl license within the State of Texas. Thus, having had to prove their ability with a handgun and are versed in Texas law concerning the use of Deadly Force.

And what if no one is licensed for that? Are you going to force them to? And then we have the problem of liability, what if an unlocked gun falls into the wrong hands and someone gets killed?

And even if I was a teacher that did have a CCL I would demand to be compensated for extra duties that do not relate to teaching. You want me to play security force you have to renegotiate the terms of my employment. And who will pay for this?

[lovebrentwood]

Originally Posted by texantodd

This is ridiculous. Anyone advocating for measures like this is so white-bread and out of touch with the reality of urban schools. Over and above the other issues that have been brought up - You arm school teachers and I guarantee you that you will have gang members in school beating down said teacher and shooting the place up. This is absolutely absurdly stupid.

Yup.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

And what if no one is licensed for that? Are you going to force them to? And then we have the problem of liability, what if an unlocked gun falls into the wrong hands and someone gets killed?

There are plenty of teachers out there who are licenced. I know of at least a dozen I could name without pausing for breath.

And what if? Well, the FIRST way I would reply is "what if" some nut comes in and starts shooting kids and anyone else in sight? Could it get any worse than that? At that point? Then ANYTHING would be better than no deterrent at all. Wouldn't you say?

But ok. Consider this, too. Here is a new column from Ann Coulter. Now, break here for a minute. I know lots of people out there despise her. BUT...are her points true or not? Especially the one that says the only gun control measure ever proven to work is when the "good guys" have the guns too, and means to fight back:

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/12/1...ool-shootings/


Only one public policy has ever been shown to reduce the death rate from such crimes: concealed-carry laws. The effect of concealed-carry laws in deterring mass public shootings was even greater than the impact of such laws on the murder rate generally. Someone planning to commit a single murder in a concealed-carry state only has to weigh the odds of one person being armed. But a criminal planning to commit murder in a public place has to worry that anyone in the entire area might have a gun.

And even if I was a teacher that did have a CCL I would demand to be compensated for extra duties that do not relate to teaching. You want me to play security force you have to renegotiate the terms of my employment. And who will pay for this?

No one expects teachers to act as a SWAT Team. I have said this countless times before (if it makes any difference), but only have the means to protect kids until the professionals can arrive on the scene.

[losttechnician]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

And what if no one is licensed for that? Are you going to force them to? And then we have the problem of liability, what if an unlocked gun falls into the wrong hands and someone gets killed?

And even if I was a teacher that did have a CCL I would demand to be compensated for extra duties that do not relate to teaching. You want me to play security force you have to renegotiate the terms of my employment. And who will pay for this?

You seem to be ignoring the point here. There is no discussion about ARMING teachers. The only discussion is about ALLOWING concealed permit holders to carry their concealed guns onto campus.

There is no creation of a "security force".
There is no requirement that anyone carry.
There is no conscription or forced involvement.

Unlocked guns falling into the wrong hands? There are already laws on the books about allowing children access to firearms, you want more?

Finally, why would you demand to be compensated for PROTECTING YOURSELF?