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To be discriminated against by a white person, if you are black, is different than it is to be discriminated against by a black person if you are white. White discrimination comes out of a discourse that has been developed over centuries, really since the European enlightenment. Black discrimination is a response to this discourse. The problem with white people saying that "racism is a two way street" is thus that they don't follow the logic of their own metaphor any further than it suits them--if they did they'd see that it was white people who made the street, and that's why there is no equivalence. To act like these two forms of discrimination are equivalent, you would have to first presume either A). A history that has never existed in which blacks also tyrannized whites for centuries, just as whites have done with blacks, or B). that history in the case of dealing with racism or discrimination simply doesn't matter--it should be shut out of the conversation by virtue of its being in the past. The first proposition is simply science fiction, and the second proposition is a contradiction. Unless you want to get rid of Jesus because he was in the past, your "glorious" southern history because it was in the past, and all of the best that has been thought and said because it too was in the past, you can't discount the power of the past in determining your own present privilege vis a vis race in this country. The past, as William Faulkner, a great southern writer, once wrote, "isn't even past."
I'm not telling anyone to feel guilty about what our white ancestors did...although I don't think it would hurt.
I am just trying to say that as white people, we don't know what discrimination is.
Y'all refuse to reference the wrongdoings of whites in the past, but you're all gunghoe about the discrimination whites have faced in the past. What's the deal with that?
All races have faced discrimination at one time or another. You dont know me or my experiences so dont presume that I dont know what discrimination is. Speak for yourself but you dont speak for me.
LOL That is an easy answer...to say nothing of convenient. It saves you (and those of your "persuasion") the trouble of actually defining it.
Yeah, it CAN change...and sure as hell does, doesn't it? Depending upon what the user wants it to mean.
You gave examples? Yeah, I feel for you. I have a couple too. I was in the beer barn the other day and some black guy looked at me, extremely surly. Like it bothered him to have to wait on a white person. I felt horribly -- do you hear, HORRIBLY -- offended. I was a victim of racism, I figure. Or bigotry if you prefer...
My original post gave you a clear, defined, and topical example of bigotry/racism. I gave citations and I can give more. My personal examples specifically of my sister in laws experience in a McDonalds in which she came home visually shaken by it, is completely different than your strung together (made up I'm sure) attempt to make your experience with a black man who looked at you surly as an example of racism. And for you to even suggest that is equal is not only insulting but stupid. I don't peg you for a roads scholar but surely you can't be serious.
To be discriminated against by a white person, if you are black, is different than it is to be discriminated against by a black person if you are white. White discrimination comes out of a discourse that has been developed over centuries, really since the European enlightenment. Black discrimination is a response to this discourse. The problem with white people saying that "racism is a two way street" is thus that they don't follow the logic of their own metaphor any further than it suits them--if they did they'd see that it was white people who made the street, and that's why there is no equivalence. To act like these two forms of discrimination are equivalent, you would have to first presume either A). A history that has never existed in which blacks also tyrannized whites for centuries, just as whites have done with blacks, or B). that history in the case of dealing with racism or discrimination simply doesn't matter--it should be shut out of the conversation by virtue of its being in the past. The first proposition is simply science fiction, and the second proposition is a contradiction. Unless you want to get rid of Jesus because he was in the past, your "glorious" southern history because it was in the past, and all of the best that has been thought and said because it too was in the past, you can't discount the power of the past in determining your own present privilege vis a vis race in this country. The past, as William Faulkner, a great southern writer, once wrote, "isn't even past."
GREAT point!!! After all, aren't these white conservatives here the same ones asking to take us back to 1950 wayyyy before Obama was ever even thought of!!!?
Yeah. They wanna go back to the 1950s where blacks, gays, and religious minorities kept their mouths shut or got their face knocked in for speaking...BUT...they don't want anyone to remember all the awful things whites did to blacks back then...that straights did to gays...that men did to women, etc...
Real convenient for them.
Like TexadReb said, blacks, gays, and atheists are okay...as long ad they don't go flaunting themselves in front of the white, straight, Christians.
In other words:
-you can be black but pull your pants up and don't use slang (even though whites use plenty of slang)
-you can be gay, but don't you dare act un-masculine if you're a guy, or in-feminine if you're a gal.
-you can be Atheist as long as you keep your opinions to yourself...because god knows that a church on every street corner, and religious billboards everywhere, etc...are Christians' way of keeping their opinions to themselves.
I'm not telling anyone to feel guilty about what our white ancestors did...although I don't think it would hurt.
Tell you what. You do it for all of us. And meanwhile, I will set up a concession stand selling popcorn and peanuts to grin and watch the show! LMAO
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I am just trying to say that as white people, we don't know what discrimination is.
No shlit? *scatches my chin*. These are words of great wisdom. White folks have done nothing at all other than oppress others! LOL
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Y'all refuse to reference the wrongdoings of whites in the past, but you're all gunghoe about the discrimination whites have faced in the past. What's the deal with that?
Tell it to the blacks still enslaved in sub-Saharan African counties.
Ok...but you are right. I have not acknowledged my own guilt in the sense of feeling any for what my ancestors might have done. I think I am going to go drink a bunch of beer and feel bad about it all. In fact, I might actually feel so bad as to go out back (in the land I am sure you would say was stolen from the Indians), and set my chicken-coop afire.
All races have faced discrimination at one time or another. You dont know me or my experiences so dont presume that I dont know what discrimination is. Speak for yourself but you dont speak for me.
Your family faced racism from blacks in another country, correct?
Why is it when I mention examples outside of the USA, or outside of the south, or outside of Texas, that I'm told that's off topic to the discussion..and thus invalid?
Does your example not fall into the same guidelines that others have set on this post?
Or can we all talk freely about examples that can relate now?
If so, great! We can get somewhere.
If not, then you have to keep that to yourself just like everyone else who gives an examples outside of the KKK in the south.
What are our thoughts and opinions of the KKK? Really? Since you asked, they make for humorous guests on Jerry Springer. That's about it.
Seriously, though, as a northern transplant, I have yet to see or hear from them in the seven years I have been in this great state. In my eyes, it's as if they really do not exist, at least here in Bexar County, although I have heard they are still in every state. Non Hispanic whites are a minority here, yet everyone seems to get along. By 2020, Latinos will be a majority in the entire state, not just South Texas.
Call me sheltered but I have never seen or heard of any KKK activity in MA, and my experience has been the same here in Texas. I have no real experience to dictate whether it is growing or dying.
You really have nothing to worry about coming here.
I agree that you have nothing to worry about in terms of traveling around Texas. If I saw anyone treating another person--no matter what his/her race--in a racist manner, I would speak up in a heartbeat. No one I know in Texas takes the KKK seriously or gives them a thought one way or another. As for myself, I have no time for racists! All people deserve to be treated with respect.
Ok...but you are right. I have not acknowledged my own guilt in the sense of feeling any for what my ancestors might have done. I think I am going to go drink a bunch of beer and feel bad about it all. In fact, I might actually feel so bad as to go out back (in the land I am sure you would say was stolen from the Indians), and set my chicken-coop afire.
I love fried chicken, doncha' know!
Y'all are trying to make what I am saying out to be like I am referencing slavery and the past and having white guilt because of what white people did back then. I'm not. I've given only examples from my lifetime and what is going on in the world now. I think we should ALL feel bad enough about the discrimination that minorities face NOW to change it.
I don't think I ever even once mentioned slavery in America.
However, if I were to mention it, I would say, that I can't have any guilt over it because my ancestors didn't own slaves. My ancestors are Scottish and Irish and migrated here after slavery ended during the Irish potato famine.
So, I don't have white guilt over slavery. I think it was a disgusting period...but trying to label me as someone who just has white guilt about what you presume my ancestors did...has no basis in fact or in anything I have said.
Any so called "white guilt" that I might have is purely from how I've seen my own race treat racial minorities in my lifetime. THAT is COMPLETELY relevant!!!
The "Coon Hunting Club" a few blocks away from my house is a good example of the relevance that the KKK is still a threat to blacks today! No white guilt! Just plain cold-hard facts!
Your family faced racism from blacks in another country, correct?
Why is it when I mention examples outside of the USA, or outside of the south, or outside of Texas, that I'm told that's off topic to the discussion..and thus invalid?
Does your example not fall into the same guidelines that others have set on this post?
Or can we all talk freely about examples that can relate now?
If so, great! We can get somewhere.
If not, then you have to keep that to yourself just like everyone else who gives an examples outside of the KKK in the south.
I didnt set ANY guidelines for examples. You'll have to take that up with these other posters who youre claiming did.
Y'all are trying to make what I am saying out to be like I am referencing slavery and the past and having white guilt because of what white people did back then. I'm not. I've given only examples from my lifetime and what is going on in the world now. I think we should ALL feel bad enough about the discrimination that minorities face NOW to change it.
So you have seen examples of racism. What else is new? Big deal. Is it the norm? If so (or you feel it is), then explain how and why.
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I don't think I ever even once mentioned slavery in America.
That is to your credit. The only places it exists anymore is in majority black countries of sub-Saharan Africa...or some places in the Middle East (unofficially).
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However, if I were to mention it, I would say, that I can't have any guilt over it because my ancestors didn't own slaves. My ancestors are Scottish and Irish and migrated here after slavery ended during the Irish potato famine.
Then are you for real or just keep changing your story? You said earlier you felt guilt and a need to apologize. Now you say you feel none and no need. I am mostly Scots-Irish, myself, by the way...
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So, I don't have white guilt over slavery. I think it was a disgusting period...but trying to label me as someone who just has white guilt about what you presume my ancestors did...has no basis in fact or in anything I have said.
Again though...you are the one who earlier made a big point of apologizing for what "white people" did.
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Any so called "white guilt" that I might have is purely from how I've seen my own race treat racial minorities in my lifetime. THAT is COMPLETELY relevant!!!
Give an example that you would fairly consider a "norm". Where and when was it?? I mean, hell, I can find a
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The "Coon Hunting Club" a few blocks away from my house is a good example of the relevance that the KKK is still a threat to blacks today! No white guilt! Just plain cold-hard facts!
OK, fair enough to start. Now tell us more about this "Coon Hunting Club" and connection to the KKK. Will you? And where do you live? I want to hear more about all this...
Don't you think that is fair to ask and for you to answer?
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