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Sorry but I'm going to have to call BS on this one.
For starters, let's discuss the racism you claim is rampant in Longview. I come from a very racially diverse family (including African Americans and Hispanic, as well as Korean and "plain ol' white folks"). Several of us live scattered between Longview and Tyler. No issues WHATSOEVER with race, and several of these family members spent years in the military, and overseas, in various other regions of the country, etc. They have, without exception, remarked on how good the race relations seem to be in East Texas - ESPECIALLY in Longview. It's very laid back and friendly.
No one has had any trouble finding a job.
And finally - what do you mean by "get ready for your application to be thrown in the garbage because of the sound of your name?" This statement right here is a dead giveaway regarding YOUR OWN RACIST VIEWS. It's racist to assume that most African Americans' names sound a certain way, and it's racist to assume that hiring managers are going to discriminate as well. Very telling of your own mindset.
I worked in the hiring field for decades. Sure, there are some stupid sounding names out there, but the stupidity of parents apparently isn't determined by race. I've met white people named Butterfly and black people named Shanaynay. Either person is going to fight against those stupid names their entire life. My advice to either would be that if they don't like their name or think it holds them back professionally, pick another one.
That's all well and good Kathryn but your personal experiences do not invalidate sbuttrfly's. I understand that your family is multiracial, so y'all's experiences will not be the same as fully black families.
I'm also from East Texas, and my family has more than a few stories of cold blooded racism that they could share with you, dating all the way back to the sharecropping days. I'm sure most black East Texans would say the same.
There is absolutely such a thing as a "black name", and most people know one when they hear it. And yes discrimination based on name does indeed exist.
I have absolutely no reason to doubt anything sbuttrfly is saying. And the fact that people are constantly trying to tell us blacks that we are WRONG about our observations of the way we've been treated is part of why the divisiveness amongst the races will never end.
That's all well and good Kathryn but your personal experiences do not invalidate sbuttrfly's. I understand that your family is multiracial, so y'all's experiences will not be the same as fully black families.
I'm also from East Texas, and my family has more than a few stories of cold blooded racism that they could share with you, dating all the way back to the sharecropping days. I'm sure most black East Texans would say the same.
There is absolutely such a thing as a "black name", and most people know one when they hear it. And yes discrimination based on name does indeed exist.
I have absolutely no reason to doubt anything sbuttrfly is saying. And the fact that people are constantly trying to tell us blacks that we are WRONG about our observations of the way we've been treated is part of why the divisiveness amongst the races will never end.
I am sure that racism exists - of course it does. It exists in ALL communities to some extent - including black communities. But to say that racism impedes the quality of life significantly TODAY in Longview, Texas, to the extent that sbuttrfly described it - sorry, I'm not buying it. Well, let me rephrase that - I think that people tend to get what they expect from others, and if a person is walking around expecting racism at every turn, that's what they'll experience - without realizing that THEIR OWN RACISM is part of the problem.
And of course there are names which are considered "black names" - which is why I used the name "Shanaynay" in my example. There are also "white trash names" and ridiculous "cowboy" and "cowgirl" names - and any number of such names, including but not limited to "black names" can be impediments to a professional career, which is why I stated that if I felt my name was an impediment to a career - I'd change it. And I would.
I did not say that "name discrimination" doesn't exist - in fact, I clearly stated that it does. It's just not limited to "black names." And here's the crux of my issue with the other poster's opinion on racism. He/she seems to think that all discrimination he/she experienced is due to race, when the reality is probably more along the lines of getting what you expect from others.
Let me give you an example, which I've used before on this forum. I was married to an African American man and we had four kids. We were in the military and at one point were stationed at Fort Benning, GA. We met another interracial couple there - a very attractive young couple from New York state. They were both literally scared to death to be living in the south as an interracial couple. They were literally afraid they'd be attacked.
Well, every time we got together, they'd share stories of how they'd been discriminated against. "They were denied housing because of their interracial marriage." "This clerk was rude to them because of their interracial marriage." "These people in the restaurant were staring at them because of their interracial marriage." "This guy cut them off in traffic and shot them the bird because when he saw that they were in an interracial marriage." yada yada yada
One day I just had to say it, so I did. I said, "Cathy, I find this fascinating. We live in the same town. We shop in the same places. We eat at the same restaurants. We live in the same neighborhood for pete's sake! And yet, we literally NEVER have these experiences that you and your family seem to have ALL THE TIME. I'm sorry, but at this point I have to wonder why that is?"
The only difference in the two situations was attitude. They were defensive and paranoid and didn't want to live where they lived - and that attitude showed up in their interactions with people. Their fears and dislikes were coloring each scenario and they couldn't even see it.
I am sure that racism exists - of course it does. It exists in ALL communities to some extent - including black communities. But to say that racism impedes the quality of life significantly TODAY in Longview, Texas, to the extent that sbuttrfly described it - sorry, I'm not buying it. Well, let me rephrase that - I think that people tend to get what they expect from others, and if a person is walking around expecting racism at every turn, that's what they'll experience - without realizing that THEIR OWN RACISM is part of the problem.
And of course there are names which are considered "black names" - which is why I used the name "Shanaynay" in my example. There are also "white trash names" and ridiculous "cowboy" and "cowgirl" names - and any number of such names, including but not limited to "black names" can be impediments to a professional career, which is why I stated that if I felt my name was an impediment to a career - I'd change it. And I would.
I did not say that "name discrimination" doesn't exist - in fact, I clearly stated that it does. It's just not limited to "black names." And here's the crux of my issue with the other poster's opinion on racism. He/she seems to think that all discrimination he/she experienced is due to race, when the reality is probably more along the lines of getting what you expect from others.
Let me give you an example, which I've used before on this forum. I was married to an African American man and we had four kids. We were in the military and at one point were stationed at Fort Benning, GA. We met another interracial couple there - a very attractive young couple from New York state. They were both literally scared to death to be living in the south as an interracial couple. They were literally afraid they'd be attacked.
Well, every time we got together, they'd share stories of how they'd been discriminated against. "They were denied housing because of their interracial marriage." "This clerk was rude to them because of their interracial marriage." "These people in the restaurant were staring at them because of their interracial marriage." "This guy cut them off in traffic and shot them the bird because when he saw that they were in an interracial marriage." yada yada yada
One day I just had to say it, so I did. I said, "Cathy, I find this fascinating. We live in the same town. We shop in the same places. We eat at the same restaurants. We live in the same neighborhood for pete's sake! And yet, we literally NEVER have these experiences that you and your family seem to have ALL THE TIME. I'm sorry, but at this point I have to wonder why that is?"
The only difference in the two situations was attitude. They were defensive and paranoid and didn't want to live where they lived - and that attitude showed up in their interactions with people. Their fears and dislikes were coloring each scenario and they couldn't even see it.
That may have very well been the case for that couple, but you do not know that to be the case for this poster in particular. That's my point. If you haven't walked in someone's shoes, it isn't your place to say whether or not their experiences are valid. Especially since you do not know him/her personally. For all you know she could be a very pleasant and trusting person who gets back nothing but negativity in return. In a place like East Texas, that isn't hard for me to believe.
Are we really going to pretend that this isn't the same region where James Byrd was dragged to his death less than two decades ago? Or how about in that same city where blacks can barely hold on to city government positions due to obvious racism.
I'm certain that name discrimination exists on all levels, but to the same extent that it exists for blacks and other minorities? Well, I'm not buying that.
That may have very well been the case for that couple, but you do not know that to be the case for this poster in particular. That's my point. If you haven't walked in someone's shoes, it isn't your place to say whether or not their experiences are valid. Especially since you do not know him/her personally. For all you know she could be a very pleasant and trusting person who gets back nothing but negativity in return. In a place like East Texas, that isn't hard for me to believe.
Are we really going to pretend that this isn't the same region where James Byrd was dragged to his death less than two decades ago? Or how about in that same city where blacks can barely hold on to city government positions due to obvious racism.
I'm certain that name discrimination exists on all levels, but to the same extent that it exists for blacks and other minorities? Well, I'm not buying that.
"Same region????" James Byrd was killed in a tiny, very racist town - a town FAMOUS for it's racism and 130 miles away from Longview, in the backwards boonies. And his murder shocked white people as much as it did African Americans and anyone with a shred of decency. The idiot racists who murdered James Byrd, Jr are not representative of white people in this area.
I have lived, with my biracial kids, in East Texas for over twenty five years. Don't act as if I wouldn't recognize racism, because I do when I see it, and I know it exists - everywhere, and East Texas isn't particularly a hotbed of racism, for that matter. There are far worse environments.
I also know that it's not just white people who are racist. I myself (as well as my kids) have been targets of racist behavior from white AND black people over the courses of our lives and in various towns and states. I also know that if a person walks around spring loaded and defensive they often assume people are racist when the reality is that people are responding to THEIR negative, defensive mentality.
I just find this so ironic, because my youngest daughter just moved from England to Longview, Texas, and prior to England, she lived in Norfolk, VA. She is adamant that she LOVES the LACK of racism, compared to other places she's lived, in Longview. She is absolutely thrilled with the reception that her minority family has received there - in the neighborhood, her husband's new workplace, the town itself, the region. She loves the lack of racism compared to other places she's lived over the past 6 years or so and can't stop talking about how great she feels interacting with the diverse cultures one finds in Longview. She lives in a racially diverse, middle class neighborhood with her Hispanic husband (she looks African American by the way - being the darkest complected of my four kids and the one that most people don't assume is biracial and don't realize unless she tells them). Absolutely zero problems racially.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 11-11-2014 at 03:15 PM..
East TX native here. I have lived all over USA for work/school. I love Longview, and used to think it was the best town in East TX. I have not spent much time there in the last 10 years though. To me, its a beautiful area, but remember you are still in East TX. Most Blacks here are country and poor. If you are used to DC/MD area where there are many middle class and UMC Blacks, you are in for a disappointment. Some might not necessary be prejudiced against you in East TX, but as a generalization will assume that you fall within the local Black demographic. Sure East TX has plenty nurses, teachers, city employees, coaches that are middle class and Black, but it will probably be a shock from DC area. Not to get on your case, but I can infer a lot from this Black/Young Professional spill. Few of the Blacks or Whites for that matter will know or care. Having spent 7 years in private university/law school, I noticed a lot of my Black classmates are sort of used to that "special treatment" of being so young, gifted and Black. That kind of attitude will get no play in East TX, but if you are cool, you will be OK and make friends. There are a couple of small historically Black colleges in the area in Hawkins and Marshall and Tyler. All 3 are close to Longview and they might also provide some social opportunities.
If you're afraid that you don't fit the pejorative stereotype of a Texan, don't worry. Most people don't. In fact, most people generally don't care about racial, gender identity, or religious demographics. They just want you to keep your lawn mowed in a timely manner.
You'll fit in. Because, really, nobody really fits in. There is no in.
Thanks everyone! You all have been very helpful. KathrynAragon , I am a nerd-I am in technology consulting (thank you so much for your post, my mom was like I like that (your posts) she was very positive!) Also everyone, including your post Mega man and others, I feel like you were keeping it real also! I really appreciate it because somethings that were stated I kind of felt might be the case concerning the area and based off what I was seeing on youtube and places, but I kind just wanted to hear what others had to say before deciding if it was worth a visit. I am coming from Rockville,MD very diverse area. I will take what I have heard and if I think it is a pretty cool place will make a visit before taking the leap! Thank you all very much!
I apologize for anyone whom took offense to any of my comments as that was not my intention so my sincerest apologies. I am just trying to find somewhere given my options that I could call home and become comfortable. Also for the comments on hicks and progressive: Webster dictionary defines a hick as an uneducated person from a small town or the country. So my thinking is if it is a small town, especially in the South given the history, I am hoping (I don't know) which is why I was posting, but hoping that it is more progressive minded people in Longview, progressive meaning"moving forward." BTW it was some of my white friends (which at least three were brought up in small towns and are transplants up here) whom were most concerned about me relocating to some where that may be and the word used was "hickish." And I know for certain that they are NOT bigots but just concerned for my well being being a single AA female in light of reading about and hearing about the history and sometimes present occurrences that have happened in some places. However, thank you for pointing out your concerns about the wording, this was my first time posting (I am new to this site), and I am looking for information and do not unintentionally want to offend someone whom maybe able to give me advice. My apologies. Again, many thanks to all whom have shared your knowledge and advice.
Give an update, please. Did you move here? I moved here in 2015 and brought my son here at age 5, and sometimes I think it's the worst mistake of my life. I hope you faired better as a young AA professional. I fail for it. More of a single baby momma now and everything that comes with it. I'm isolated and mostly unhappy. I'm still here, because it's better than my hometown and after 6 years I've gotten used to the surroundings.
That's all well and good Kathryn but your personal experiences do not invalidate sbuttrfly's. I understand that your family is multiracial, so y'all's experiences will not be the same as fully black families.
I'm also from East Texas, and my family has more than a few stories of cold blooded racism that they could share with you, dating all the way back to the sharecropping days. I'm sure most black East Texans would say the same.
There is absolutely such a thing as a "black name", and most people know one when they hear it. And yes discrimination based on name does indeed exist.
I have absolutely no reason to doubt anything sbuttrfly is saying. And the fact that people are constantly trying to tell us blacks that we are WRONG about our observations of the way we've been treated is part of why the divisiveness amongst the races will never end.
Thank you for keeping it real in your posts. I moved here at 27 in 2015 and my experience as a young black AA is just as you call it. I truly wish I had your information before I came here. Please contact me ‪(903) 309-2675‬. I need some advice.
Awww, thanks for the feedback and I really wish you TONS of luck - you sound like a great person and you'll be an asset to any community.
Personally I wasn't offended by anything you said. Keep us posted on your decision! There are several people on this forum who will be more than willing to help with any questions if you decide to move here.
Hi Kathryn. I moved here in 2‪015. I'm still around and would like to network with you if possible. You may contact me at (903) 309-2675‬.
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Give an Update please
