Texas ignorance (Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth: taxes, law, bars)

[TexasReb]

I've been sitting on the sidelines, and gotta get in a bit on this one...and hope like hell I haven't misread anything that has been said. If so, wellll, I guess I will catch hell too! *wry smile"

But anyway, I DO see what, I think, Christian Cowboy is saying. I don't mean to be disrespectful and attempt to speak for him, but, in a nutshell, I take what he is saying in that, anymore, the large urban areas of Texas are NOT really traditional Texas. IN Texas, but not OF Texas...and there IS a big difference. The years of northern and west coast migration has taken its toll in that regard in a lot of urban areas, and it is sad. I hate it as much as the next guy, or gal.

But with THAT said, even the largest Texas cities still have TEXANS in them, and they are infinitely preferable to the impersonal megolopolisis of the NE or West Coast. *smiles*

[DD70]

I was on the freeway minding my own merry on my way to Austin and low and behold! A beat-up chevy truck with a guy in the front and his dog sitting next to him and his wife and son in the back!(btw his wife's hair was a depiction of grapes of wrath....wispies everywhere!)

[lonestar2007]

I don't care for big cities myself, but sometimes they are a necessary evil. My father was borned and raised in East Texas, grew up on a farm and was a hardworker and well versed in many areas. Growing up such as he did, you had to be a jack of all trades to survive. He and my mother moved to Dallas in order to achieve a better means of income. Many of our kinfolks did the same, it was a way to rise above their means. Did they like living in the big city? No. But it was a way to get ahead, especially for young parents with children. He managed to get us back out of the city while my sister and I were still young, so we got to experience the small town way of life.

I have friends who grew up in the country who now live in the large cities and they love it. They love the hustle and bustle and all the conveniences. Now, I guess the old saying, different strokes for different folks, applies here. These people are Texans, good ole boys you might say, salt of the earth, just as polite and friendly as ole Farmer Brown down in a one horse buggy town in the middle of nowhere.

On the other hand, you will find unfriendly folks in the cities as well as the less populated areas of Texas. That goes for anywhere in the nation as well as the world. I will agree people in a crowded big city are not as easy going as people who are living a more relaxed life in a smaller place. It's pretty simple to figger out there is more stress involved when you are having to contend with large numbers. Put too big of a herd of cattle together in an area designed to accomodate half the size of the herd, and you've got problems. They are harder to work, they will have more illness, multi problems due to the fact they are overstressed. Same goes for too many dogs in a small pen, too many chickens in a pen, just watch the hen pecking order.

I see our state changing on almost a daily basis. Is it a good thing? Well, I guess that depends on who you ask. I don't like most change, myself, but, we all know it's inevitable. The world is growing and there's a lot of it coming our way, so you might as well hang onto your hat, cause you're not going to be able to stop it.

Texans, for the most part, are a pretty independant bunch. I think this has to do with the fact that we believe we could be self sufficient in our own state, therefore we resent people from other areas coming in, trying to change our culture.

As to the cowboy stereotype, years ago my brother-in-law told us that his parents would not come down to Fort Worth to visit them because they believed everyone in Texas carried a gun and they were afraid they might get shot. They lived in Oklahoma. They never did come down to Texas.

Then along comes JR Ewing and the Dallas bunch. Lord have mercy, it was unreal how many people across the world thought everyone in Texas was either just like JR or Sue Ellen Ewing. Of course, when I was a kid, I thought everyone on Holland wore wooden shoes.

[Gretchen_SDCA]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

I've been sitting on the sidelines, and gotta get in a bit on this one...and hope like hell I haven't misread anything that has been said. If so, wellll, I guess I will catch hell too! *wry smile"

But anyway, I DO see what, I think, Christian Cowboy is saying. I don't mean to be disrespectful and attempt to speak for him, but, in a nutshell, I take what he is saying in that, anymore, the large urban areas of Texas are NOT really traditional Texas. IN Texas, but not OF Texas...and there IS a big difference. The years of northern and west coast migration has taken its toll in that regard in a lot of urban areas, and it is sad. I hate it as much as the next guy, or gal.

But with THAT said, even the largest Texas cities still have TEXANS in them, and they are infinitely preferable to the impersonal megolopolisis of the NE or West Coast. *smiles*

Of course you will catch hell! LOL But only because you paint with a too wide brush and paint us all to be impersonal. Granted, LA is impersonal. San Diego is NOT impersonal, and neither is San Francisco. Both cities contain a lot of character - quite possibly more so than many of the endless suburbs in Dallas/Houston.

Also, many of the rural areas in CA look no different to West Texas. They have the same kind of "character."

Tssstt! You spoiled my seaweed roll and green tea this morning!!!!

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by lonestar2007

I see our state changing on almost a daily basis. Is it a good thing? Well, I guess that depends on who you ask. I don't like most change, myself, but, we all know it's inevitable. The world is growing and there's a lot of it coming our way, so you might as well hang onto your hat, cause you're not going to be able to stop it.

*smiles* Some very insightful and sensitive points made here, Miss LoneStar.

I only quoted this one, because it seems to sum it up.

To backdrop it, one of the things that always annoys the hell out of me during "election season" is a candidate who "stands" for "change". To me, and to most thinking people I know, that is a downright insult to their intelligence. Change can mean any damn thing in the world. Just as progress can mean closer to the edge of the cliff. More and more, political campaigns cater to the most ignorant amongst us.

Ok..ok...I got a little bit off the beaten path here (I am prone to do it!), but back on the main trail, I don't quite agree that we have to always just roll over and play dead because change is inevitable. That isn't the stuff we true Texans are made of.

In fact, wandering off again, some of this might be illustrated by what happened back in the days just preceeding the War Between the States...

Sam Houston was determined to keep Texas in the Union, although he assured fellow Texans that he would personally lead us out of it if the situation warranted. At the time though, he thought secession would be rash action. Not only that, but that a war would result. One which would, in the long run, favor the populated and industrial North. He predicted (somewhat paraphrased):

"Let me tell you what is coming. After the sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of lives and countless millions of treasure, we may win Southern independence. But I doubt it. The North is determined to preserve this Union. They are not a fiery, impulsive people as we are...but once they begin to move in a given direction, they do so with the steady momentum of a mighty avalanche. And what I fear is, they will overwhelm our beloved South with ignoble defeat..."

Of course, that is what eventually happened. BUT...at the same time, Texans and the rest of the Confederacy made a stand that established for all time a legacy of bravery and courage. Against an enemy 3 to 30 times our numbers and resources, we came close to winning at one point, and held out against odds almost unsurmountable for four long years.

Point is. Houston was right in his prediction. The inevitable. But is there anything less heroic in resistance to the same?

[kpoeppel]

There are plenty of Rednecks up here in western Pennyslvania. Also, I've seen quite a few Confederate flags up here north of the Mason-Dixon Line, believe it or not. It's not just a Texas or Southern thing.

[momof2dfw]

Originally Posted by kpoeppel

There are plenty of Rednecks up here in western Pennyslvania. Also, I've seen quite a few Confederate flags up here north of the Mason-Dixon Line, believe it or not. It's not just a Texas or Southern thing.

I honestly have not seen a Confederate Flag since we were on vacation this summer in South Carolina and visited a few historic places. You don't see Confederate Flags flying much at all in Texas - that died down a LONG TIME AGO!

Now, back in the early 90's here in Dallas there was this one certain fella that really tried to play the race card and divide the city. He had his cohorts everyday out marching acorss the busiest street they could find in morning rush hour traffic. They weren't "marching" either but instead they could have moved faster if they were on their hands and knees and could only use one knee and one hand. It was not uncommon to have to sit thru several red/green lights even if you were the first car in line. The police did nothing as if they did he would have screamed racism. I had to go this route to work and it was a PITA!!! I jokingly said to a Dallas PD one day that worked in our building that I was going to get an old beatup pickup and put a Confederate Flag on the back window and the horn to play Dixie and do that with much Gusto when I approached this mess. He laughed and thought it was great. One day when we were all talking and this subject came up again someone asked if a motorist "accidently" ran over this guy what would happen. The officer said, "nothing". Some of us would be glad it was finally over as it is wasting a lot of taxpayer dollars and our time. The officer that was saying this happened to be the same race as the protester. That was the only time I thought about "buying" a Confederate Flag but it was ONLY because of this hoopla going on that was getting rather old.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by momof2dfw

I honestly have not seen a Confederate Flag since we were on vacation this summer in South Carolina and visited a few historic places. You don't see Confederate Flags flying much at all in Texas - that died down a LONG TIME AGO!

Now, back in the early 90's here in Dallas there was this one certain fella that really tried to play the race card and divide the city. He had his cohorts everyday out marching acorss the busiest street they could find in morning rush hour traffic. They weren't "marching" either but instead they could have moved faster if they were on their hands and knees and could only use one knee and one hand. It was not uncommon to have to sit thru several red/green lights even if you were the first car in line. The police did nothing as if they did he would have screamed racism. I had to go this route to work and it was a PITA!!! I jokingly said to a Dallas PD one day that worked in our building that I was going to get an old beatup pickup and put a Confederate Flag on the back window and the horn to play Dixie and do that with much Gusto when I approached this mess. He laughed and thought it was great. One day when we were all talking and this subject came up again someone asked if a motorist "accidently" ran over this guy what would happen. The officer said, "nothing". Some of us would be glad it was finally over as it is wasting a lot of taxpayer dollars and our time. The officer that was saying this happened to be the same race as the protester. That was the only time I thought about "buying" a Confederate Flag but it was ONLY because of this hoopla going on that was getting rather old.

LOL

I THINK I remember something of the surroundings of the incident you are talking about, Momof2!

This guy, an agitator originally from California, started out by trying to get Robert E. Lee Park and the equestrian statue on the same lawn, removed and renamed. This was soundly defeated. And we in the Sons of Confederate Veterans held a "Confederate Heritage Day" celebration in the same park. I am proud of that.

Anyway, I agree that most of the bitterness would die off IF the other side would let it die off. We in the South are justifiably PROUD of our heritage and our ancestors fighting spirits. At the same time though, most of us also adhere to what Gen. Lee said when he told the remnants of his army words to the effect of "We fought the good fight, but the odds against us were too great and now the issue has been settled. Now, go home and become good citizens of a reunited country"

We Texans/Southerners have done just that.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by kpoeppel

There are plenty of Rednecks up here in western Pennyslvania. Also, I've seen quite a few Confederate flags up here north of the Mason-Dixon Line, believe it or not. It's not just a Texas or Southern thing.

There is a difference. The Confederate Flag is not the property of rednecks or racists. It is a banner of honor and nobility and the banner of Southern soldiers on the field. Unfortunately, when it is displayed up north, there is often almost no understanding of any of that.

To Southerners, the Battle Flag represents our heritage and an icon of regional pride, and nothing hateful about it.

I am filled with both shame and disgust when I see skinheads and coneheads and boneheads from the North using that proud standard as representative of their hate filled philosophies.

[kpoeppel]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

There is a difference. The Confederate Flag is not the property of rednecks or racists. It is a banner of honor and nobility and the banner of Southern soldiers on the field. Unfortunately, when it is displayed up north, there is often almost no understanding of any of that.

To Southerners, the Battle Flag represents our heritage and an icon of regional pride, and nothing hateful about it.

I am filled with both shame and disgust when I see skinheads and coneheads and boneheads from the North using that proud standard as representative of their hate filled philosophies.

It's very interesting that you say that. It's been my contention that the Confederate flag means very different things to different people. It seems like a huge mis-communication is going on regarding the thing. Some people see it as simply a symbol of rebellion (I think that's the dominant view of it up here), others see it as a symbol of racism (the media and acadmic elite), and others see it as a symbol of their homeland or region, no different than how people in Pittsburgh view the Terrible Towel.

I remember seeing some article in a newspaper about Confederate flags being flown at Nascar races. It was the same pattern of the paper simply assuming the flag wavers were racist, when it could have meant something totally different to the people waving it.

As far as I understand history, only the rich could afford to buy slaves, so the majority of white Southerners weren't hugely affected by abolition. I can only assume they were fighting for "their homeland" and not to keep blacks enslaved.

I'll go ahead and "take sides" and say that the North had the moral high ground regarding slavery. However, in recent decades it seems this nation has really lost its moral compass. My beliefs are now far more in common with people in the South than in the North.