Texas ignorance (Houston, Dallas, Austin: fit in, college, gated)

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by BobTex

Y'all are wrong ... might this "willfully ignorant" (read my posts and see if this description fits) person do some edjumacating????

"Redneck" is a term originally given the white field rider (overseer) in the plantation fields during the slavery period in the South. Another slang term used in derogoratory fashion by some (mostly blacks) when referring to whites is "Kracker"! This also described the field rider as he would carry a whip and "crack" it to communicate! The "redneck" comes from being in the sun all day and thus the neck would bear the brunt od the sun!

Of course the term has evolved thru time to different interpretations which some have alluded to here. To me it just plain means country folk ... which I am! And I'll match wit and intelligence with any who thinks it means "Ignorant"!!!!!!

I am not a bigot although I can be quite reactionary!!!!

There ... I've had my say on that!


Hi ! My name is Bob ... and ... I'm a REDNECK !!!!!

LOL I like your way of thinking, Bob! Count me in that class as well!

[TexasReb]

In addition to those given, there is also another "theory" on the origination of the term "cracker". This one was put forth by the late Dr. Grady McWhiney's (history professor at Texas Christian University) in his book "Cracker Culture in the Old South." Supposedly, term sprang into being by virtue of the fact that the predominant stock in the South was of a certain Anglo/Celtic decent (Scots-Irish and Upland English) and the lower and middle classes of them were known for their renowned story-telling and "cracking" jokes.

In fact, he also suggests that one of the reasons for the "Civil War" was traceable to animosities dating back to the Old Country, between the above, who largely settled the South, and the more purely Anglo from the industrial areas of lower England who migrated to New England and the northeast. In everything from religion to poltics and folkways, those people didn't much care for each other to begin with, so the theory goes!

It goes on to say that, to this day, there are, in many ways, these differences still exist. For instance, the fact that Southerners have a more "colorful" way of expressing themselves, and that story telling is a very cherished part of family life and social interactions. And that relations with neighbors tend to be more informal and hospitable. Also, a tendency to put more stock in social customs to maintain civility and order than by "passing a law." One concrete example of the latter might be that restrictive "gun control" laws are much less common in the Southern states than elsewhere.

I agree...

[tulegirl]

I married a Texan - he's less of a cowboy than my dad (who was a N. Calif rancher - and calls himself a redneck - likes to show it off, too). My husband is from the Fort Worth area and he likes Hank Hill. Says they'd be friends. he'd stand in the alley with Boomhauer and the "gang" having a beer every chance he could.

Yep =)

[BobTex]

Famous last words of a redneck: "Hey Bubba, hold my beer and y'all watch this"!

[Gretchen_SDCA]

Originally Posted by tulegirl

I married a Texan - he's less of a cowboy than my dad (who was a N. Calif rancher - and calls himself a redneck - likes to show it off, too). My husband is from the Fort Worth area and he likes Hank Hill. Says they'd be friends. he'd stand in the alley with Boomhauer and the "gang" having a beer every chance he could.

Yep =)

Yes, it is quite interesting that someone else mentioned this as well. There are MANY cowboys in parts of CA (East San Diego has its share), as well as plenty of rednecks. I don't know why the media/Hollywood always portray Texans as ignorant rednecks or cowboys.

A stereotype that is far more true (and yes, it is a stereotype and a VAST generalization) is that many Texans are not very tolerant, especially when it comes to religion and lifestyle choices. Instead of "live and let live," there are many religious conservatives who like to meddle in other people's lives. In some communities, which church you belong to is extremely important in having a social life. However, is this ignorance? No - it has nothing to do with intelligence. I would label it as intolerance.

[texdav]

Having been born in texas and lived there most of my life;I really think alot of texans love the cowboy;individualist image. The texas attitude so many talk about is really a rural texas thing. So many texans whether they achieve it or not want to own acreage and live near small towns one day.My dad moved from the northeast and even he became infected by the love of the small texas town over the years. The rich have basically taken over so many small town areas and much of the hill country has been sub-divided into communities with tract housing and ten acre so called mini-ranches. No wnader they think of new comers much the same way as the indians though of the white man. Then look at the image ;not the ones in movies;but of cities everyday in the news. I think there is no doubt which has the worse stereotype image problem.The nation is shocked when the intolerent quakers have a shooting in their school but are not surprised when it happens in a urban area.

[wade_word]

It just gets so old with the hick accents and trailer parks. Most people who stereotype us have never even been to Texas. But what I'd like to see is anyone using the aforementioned "whip" to open a car door.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Gretchen_SDCA

A stereotype that is far more true (and yes, it is a stereotype and a VAST generalization) is that many Texans are not very tolerant, especially when it comes to religion and lifestyle choices. Instead of "live and let live," there are many religious conservatives who like to meddle in other people's lives. In some communities, which church you belong to is extremely important in having a social life. However, is this ignorance? No - it has nothing to do with intelligence. I would label it as intolerance.

Having read many of your posts, Gretchen, let me say right off the bat that I sincerely respect your intelligence and basic "fairness." At the same time, as with many of the same, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you here.

To start, I guess I have a real problem with that duality of the terms "tolerance" and "intolerance." Far too often, both are used, depending on the application, to label people who do not agree with their own outlook. It has no precise definition. Kinda like the term "racism"...it seems to mean -- as in the classic story "Through the Looking Glass" (commonly known as "Alice in Wonderland" by Lewis Carroll) what Humpty Dumpty said as words
meaning "just what I want them to mean, no more or no less" (this is paraphrased).

I hasten to add I am not suggesting this is what you are doing, but rather, noting this for posterities sake!

But to the point in question about small town Texans (or any other Texans for that matter), seeming to be "intolerant" in the ways you mention? Well, what a lot of non-Texans/Southerners do not seem to understand nor appreciate is that religion IS a big factor down here. We are part of the Southern Bible Belt. And this fact contributes to a HUGE culture gap when it comes to relocating West Coasters and Northeasterners. Yankees (sorry, couldn't resist that one...but I AM just kiddin'! ).

*AHEM* Anyway, being a native Texan, and having lived occasionally in small towns, I can honestly say that the vast majority of folks when they ask about church attendence or whatever are not being meddlesome. Since religion IS a big factor, they are simply trying to be neighborly and find some common ground for conversation. They are not trying to convert anyone. Believe me (if you will! LOL), the most tolerant people in the world and who truly mind their own business are to be found in the rural South. That is to say, for example, don't give a damn what two consenting adults do behind closed doors. And in what might seem a strange paradox to "outsiders" that very fact is actually linked to a certain fundamentalism. To wit, recognition of that everyone has monkeys on their backs and skeletons in their closet.

Now, if by "intolerance" -- again using this one example -- one means that Texans/Southerners, on the aggregate, are capable of making moral value judgements concerning "lifestyles"...as in not thinking all are on the same level and don't pretend otherwise, then ok, I suppose there is something to what you say. Some of us believe the closet is there for a reason, if that makes sense.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by traveler guy

I hate it when you see a T.V show and they put a person from Texas as a cowboy or redneck. I lived in Texas most my life and no one I know is like that.

Having lived in both GA and TX, I saw more redneck influence in GA.

[Gretchen_SDCA]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Having read many of your posts, Gretchen, let me say right off the bat that I sincerely respect your intelligence and basic "fairness." At the same time, as with many of the same, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you here.

To start, I guess I have a real problem with that duality of the terms "tolerance" and "intolerance." Far too often, both are used, depending on the application, to label people who do not agree with their own outlook. It has no precise definition. Kinda like the term "racism"...it seems to mean -- as in the classic story "Through the Looking Glass" (commonly known as "Alice in Wonderland" by Lewis Carroll) what Humpty Dumpty said as words
meaning "just what I want them to mean, no more or no less" (this is paraphrased).

I hasten to add I am not suggesting this is what you are doing, but rather, noting this for posterities sake!

But to the point in question about small town Texans (or any other Texans for that matter), seeming to be "intolerant" in the ways you mention? Well, what a lot of non-Texans/Southerners do not seem to understand nor appreciate is that religion IS a big factor down here. We are part of the Southern Bible Belt. And this fact contributes to a HUGE culture gap when it comes to relocating West Coasters and Northeasterners. Yankees (sorry, couldn't resist that one...but I AM just kiddin'! ).

*AHEM* Anyway, being a native Texan, and having lived occasionally in small towns, I can honestly say that the vast majority of folks when they ask about church attendence or whatever are not being meddlesome. Since religion IS a big factor, they are simply trying to be neighborly and find some common ground for conversation. They are not trying to convert anyone. Believe me (if you will! LOL), the most tolerant people in the world and who truly mind their own business are to be found in the rural South. That is to say, for example, don't give a damn what two consenting adults do behind closed doors. And in what might seem a strange paradox to "outsiders" that very fact is actually linked to a certain fundamentalism. To wit, recognition of that everyone has monkeys on their backs and skeletons in their closet.

Now, if by "intolerance" -- again using this one example -- one means that Texans/Southerners, on the aggregate, are capable of making moral value judgements concerning "lifestyles"...as in not thinking all are on the same level and don't pretend otherwise, then ok, I suppose there is something to what you say. Some of us believe the closet is there for a reason, if that makes sense.

Hi:

Thank you for your kind words and your well-reasoned response. I even enjoyed the little stabs! LOL.

I should start by reassuring you that my definition of intolerance/tolerance is not the above. I truly have no problem with different views, even if they are very conservative or very religious for example. In a healthy debate, in which both sides decided to enter a healthy discussion, I would not hesitate to argue my viewpoint, but I would expect the other side to do the same. Generally though, in daily life, I guess I pretty much adhere to a "live and let live" standard, i.e. on a simplistic level, if no one is hurting each other or breaking the law, I let them be. I will not challenge or even initiate conversation with people I meet about religion or political beliefs, because I believe that those things are private. Depending on the time and place, if someone else brings it up, I may challenge them or I may simply indicate that I do not wish to discuss it at that time.

I have numerous friends and business associates in TX - most in Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio. These people are all of different religious persuasions, some are agnostics/atheists, some are straight, some are gay. Their religion or sexual orientation is of no importance to me.

However, some of my less religious and gay/lesbian friends have indicated that they are often approached about their religion or lifestyle. As you mentioned, that might be fairly normal if religion plays such a huge role. The problem for them is the "lectures" and social shunning that is often encountered after stating their beliefs. Several mentioned that they were asked whether they knew that they would be going to hell, that their lifestyle is perverted, that they need to be "saved" etc. Suddenly, there were no more invitations to social gatherings, dinners, clubs etc. You get the idea.

I almost found this hard to believe, but I can understand where they come from, at least on the religious front. On several visits, I had been asked about religion and received various responses, concededly ranging from mere "Oh OKs" to some fairly insulting rhetoric. I have no problem with religion being important, even with it being in the public sphere (because after all, it is Constitutional) - but I do have a problem with people forcing it down your throat. There is no law against it (it is free speech and you CAN simply walk away), but it is nevertheless off-putting and IMHO intolerant.

As a heterosexual women, I cannot really give first-hand accounts of how gays are treated, but many of my gay/lesbian friends report receiving similar treatment in terms of sexual orientation in some more "enlightened" TX cities such as Dallas and Austin.

And hence, my comment in the post above. I realize not all Texans are like this - and I realize there are people like that in CA or pretty much everywhere else. But I have noticed a trend, and I don't think I am the only one. And to be honest, I think it puts a lot of people off TX and Christianity as well. Quite possibly it leads to all these truly inaccurate stereotypes about Texans being stupid or ignorant etc. etc. I don't know, but I think it may contribute, and that is too bad, because TX does have a lot to offer.