Infrastructure - Austin vs. Houston vs. Dallas vs. San Antonio (Fort Worth: homes, employment)

[cBach]

IMHO DFW is far more advanced than any other city. The total mileage of DART far exceeds Houston's paltry Metro. Freeways and tollways are always being built and upgraded. They actually do a pretty good job in this regard.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by Gunion Powder

Considering the massive size of the urban area, Houston's rail system is just too little too late. DART can still take you many more places by rail. That counts for a lot in my book.

Why too late? This is something the Bay Area would tell in the LA in the 80s, but now today it's almost flipped. The growth in DFW keeps pushing away from the rail there. Even the station near State Farm's new campus had a drop in ridership as employees started moving in. You have to give DFW credit for having that many miles of rail but for the most part, they just take you to places further out (not necessarily more places, aside from the airports).

[Yellow pool of piddle]

Originally Posted by Spade

TBH, I think if Houston built the entire University Line along with the Post Oak line, it would surpass the DART ridership. Houston's rail system is really a tram though. An Urban transit system. Won't call it a tram in the US but Europeans that visit or look at videos of Houston's rail system says it is comparable to the tram systems in Europe. I think the tram shouldn't go outside the loop for right now. If it does, only go only a few miles outside of the loop. For areas outside the loop, I wish Houston could look at HRT technology. IMO, Houston would actually make a HRT system work better than Dallas.

You can't be serious. DART has already run a light rail line between downtown Dallas and two airports and, so far, connecting directly up with DFW airport. It has also connected downtown with five medical centers with the largest, the Southwestern Medical District, also connected by a commuter line as well.
Metro is at least ten years behind Dart and probably fifteen.

[JJG]

Speaking of rail in North Texas, THIS just broke ground and will be done in 2018.





The Fort Worth side of the Metroplex is finally starting to get its own rail, as well.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by Yellow pool of piddle

You can't be serious. DART has already run a light rail line between downtown Dallas and two airports and, so far, connecting directly up with DFW airport. It has also connected downtown with five medical centers with the largest, the Southwestern Medical District, also connected by a commuter line as well.
Metro is at least ten years behind Dart and probably fifteen.

The problem is that those airport rail stations, especially DFW station is very low. Under 900 people weekly IIRC. It's good that they're connected but the population doesn't utilitize it. Most likely due to the layout that makes Dallas the hub when it shouldn't be. It'll take more of these proposed rail lines being built to make a dent. I'd say Metro os ten years behind Dart and that's really only because the airports arent connected. All it'll take is the University/Uptown lines to match ridership. Then a short extension of the SE line to Hobby. Could probably see that in ten years if Metro pushes for it harder. Going to IAH will be the toughest part because of distance.

[Gunion Powder]

How can you only look at ridership? What about miles?

[Spade]

Originally Posted by Yellow pool of piddle

You can't be serious. DART has already run a light rail line between downtown Dallas and two airports and, so far, connecting directly up with DFW airport. It has also connected downtown with five medical centers with the largest, the Southwestern Medical District, also connected by a commuter line as well.
Metro is at least ten years behind Dart and probably fifteen.

You argued something that I never said anything about. As of right now, Metro in Houston has 60k people riding the light rail with nearly 22 miles of rail. DART has 104k people riding the light rail with 90 miles of rail. DART is far more extensive than Metro. But Metro has a much higher ridership than DART. When the University Line is built (because I think it will get built in the not too distant future), that adds about another 40k people for the system connecting major universities, employment centers, retail destinations, etc. It will probably become the 2nd most used line in the system. DART follows the model of the HRT systems built in DC and Atlanta except using LRT technology. It's a hybrid urban-commuter system that brings people from the suburbs into the city. Metro is a strict urban transit system. It focuses on pretty much just the city and keeps everything local.

BTW, it would be a mistake to use the current LRT system Houston has and extend it to IAH. Hobby yes. IAH no. To slow as it is and to far.

[Yellow pool of piddle]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

The problem is that those airport rail stations, especially DFW station is very low. Under 900 people weekly IIRC. It's good that they're connected but the population doesn't utilitize it. Most likely due to the layout that makes Dallas the hub when it shouldn't be. It'll take more of these proposed rail lines being built to make a dent. I'd say Metro os ten years behind Dart and that's really only because the airports arent connected. All it'll take is the University/Uptown lines to match ridership. Then a short extension of the SE line to Hobby. Could probably see that in ten years if Metro pushes for it harder. Going to IAH will be the toughest part because of distance.

The philosophy of Dart allows for infill. Stations can be added where they don't exist today. Four major emploment centers are connected together - downtown Dallas, downtown Fort Worth, Las Colinas, and the Telecom Corridor. The areas around the numerous luxury shopping centers are already working fabulous, so why fix them by running mass transit out to them? The TOD's of Mockingbird Station, the shops at Park Lane, and West Village were created by Light Rail, not destroyed by them.

The topic is about infrastructure. In the 90's, the philosopies of Houston and Dallas parted ways. While Houston chose to construct Beltway 8, DART chose to construct a Light Rail line.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by Yellow pool of piddle

The philosophy of Dart allows for infill. Stations can be added where they don't exist today. Four major emploment centers are connected together - downtown Dallas, downtown Fort Worth, Las Colinas, and the Telecom Corridor. The areas around the numerous luxury shopping centers are already working fabulous, so why fix them by running mass transit out to them? The TOD's of Mockingbird Station, the shops at Park Lane, and West Village were created by Light Rail, not destroyed by them.

The topic is about infrastructure. In the 90's, the philosopies of Houston and Dallas parted ways. While Houston chose to construct Beltway 8, DART chose to construct a Light Rail line.

There are a few places where that infill is happening, but even where its happening the ridership is low, or declines lkke the station near State Farm. Most of the development is happening away from it though. If Houston had Dart's mileage, the ridership would be three times higher. It's a shame Houston doesn't have the miles now.

Originally Posted by Gunion Powder

How can you only look at ridership? What about miles?

I looked at and mentioned both. For the amount of miles it has, DART is very underutilized by the people of DFW.

[Yellow pool of piddle]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

There are a few places where that infill is happening, but even where its happening the ridership is low, or declines lkke the station near State Farm. Most of the development is happening away from it though. If Houston had Dart's mileage, the ridership would be three times higher. It's a shame Houston doesn't have the miles now.



I looked at and mentioned both. For the amount of miles it has, DART is very underutilized by the people of DFW.

In my opinion, there is only one urban area in Texas and that is Uptown Dallas. It is urban because it has an abundance of established retail. They are now in the process of establishing grocery stores in the area. To me, that is what is needed in order to establish a rail system. In and around the vicinity of Uptown, people won't need cars. As of today, the state of Texas is against this philosophy. Lot's of people work at auto insurance companies, vehicle manufacturing plants, and new car dealerships. I get the impression that while the state of Texas is slapping its citizens in the back of the head to stop them ftom polluting, they are also kicking us in the butt to continue using cars.
In comparison to Uptown Dallas, both downtown Dallas and downtown Houston are glorified office parks. I don't know why DART and Metro insist on making them the prime connection centers for their light rail systems.