is Texas a southwestern or southern state? (Dallas, Fort Worth: credit, move to)

[traveler guy]

Texas is Texas. We are too big to be considered part of any one region. To are east we got southern charm to the west we have deserts and mountains. to the north we have the rolling plains of the midwest. and to the south we got north mexico.

[TexasHorseLady]

Texas has been it's own country and has had the Confederate flag flown over her.

Also the French Flag. Does that make Texas a French state?

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by turkeytrot

Texas has been it's own country and has had the Confederate flag flown over her. Then again it's been said Ft Worth, It's where the west begins.

Texas has it's own mystique that no other state has, nuff said.

We all agree on the last statement, for sure!

Just wanted to note something though about the famous Fort Worth slogan, "Where the West Begins." There are some misconceptions about it, one being that it originated to apply to Fort Worth itself. Actually, it sprang from a poem written in 1911 and was in response to an ongoing debate about where exactly the West did begin? Some argued the Mississippi River, others the Allegheny Mountains and etc.

Here is a link to it: Texas, The Lone Star State: “Where the West Begins” (Fort Worth slogan)

Another interesting tidbit is a much lesser known, but a very relevant occurance which puts the "Where the West Begins" into perpective as concerns Texas and its regional affliliation. That is, in response to Ft. Worth adopting the slogan, some Dallasites began calling themselves "Where the East Ends".

Here is the link to that twin: Texas, The Lone Star State: “Where the East Ends” (Dallas slogan)

Anyway, the point to be made is that "Where the West Begins" was never intended to mean -- and no one took it that way -- "The South Stops here." Anymore than St. Louis' "Gateway to the West" meant one was leaving the Midwest. This is evidenced by the Dallas response. It didn't say "Where the South Ends", but "Where the East Ends."

This is an important distinction. The "West" was not thought of as a single coherent cultural region per se (and it still isn't today), but simply a largely unsettled half of the country different in many ways from the "East."

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Texas has been it's own country and has had the Confederate flag flown over her.

Also the French Flag. Does that make Texas a French state?

No, and the fact the Confederate Flag once flew over Texas doesn't make us a member state of the CSA today either, since obviously we all know who won the war!

I think the point being made (a good one) is that the Confederate experience and its legacy (which definitely involve voting patterns over the years) is a part of Texas history which counts in terms of United States regional affiliation. As to just how much it counts depends, of course, on individual perspective and study...

[Spade]

When it comes down to it. Texas is Texas. It is not all the way Southern, it is not all the way Western, it is not all the way Midwestern, and it is not all the way Mexican. All traits can be found in Texas and yes you can find a little bit of the Midwest vibe in DFW big time. The only part of Texas that is true deep South is East Texas down to the Golden Triangle. Once you get left of it, you're basically done with the deep south. Houston is not deep south and Dallas sure as heck isn't and Austin and San Antonio....ha.

Everytime I tell people I'm from the South in Georgia, Alabama, or even up and down the east coast and they ask me what state,I tell them Texas and they quickly correct me and say you're not really in the South and I agree with that. Texas is not as southern as Mississippi, Alabama, or Georgia. While Atlanta has seen some of it's migration come in changed it's southern roots a bit. It's still southern to the core and the rest of the South acknowledges that. Much more Southern than Houston, Dallas, or Miami. If you do need to put it in a region, it's obviously southern. But when you break it down, Texas is simply Texas. Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and the Carolinas are Southeastern which Texas is not part of.

[TXRyan23]

Originally Posted by Spade

When it comes down to it. Texas is Texas. It is not all the way Southern, it is not all the way Western, it is not all the way Midwestern, and it is not all the way Mexican. All traits can be found in Texas and yes you can find a little bit of the Midwest vibe in DFW big time. The only part of Texas that is true deep South is East Texas down to the Golden Triangle. Once you get left of it, you're basically done with the deep south. Houston is not deep south and Dallas sure as heck isn't and Austin and San Antonio....ha.

Everytime I tell people I'm from the South in Georgia, Alabama, or even up and down the east coast and they ask me what state,I tell them Texas and they quickly correct me and say you're not really in the South and I agree with that. Texas is not as southern as Mississippi, Alabama, or Georgia. While Atlanta has seen some of it's migration come in changed it's southern roots a bit. It's still southern to the core and the rest of the South acknowledges that. Much more Southern than Houston, Dallas, or Miami. If you do need to put it in a region, it's obviously southern. But when you break it down, Texas is simply Texas. Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and the Carolinas are Southeastern which Texas is not part of.

Well said.

[traveler guy]

Originally Posted by Spade

When it comes down to it. Texas is Texas. It is not all the way Southern, it is not all the way Western, it is not all the way Midwestern, and it is not all the way Mexican. All traits can be found in Texas and yes you can find a little bit of the Midwest vibe in DFW big time. The only part of Texas that is true deep South is East Texas down to the Golden Triangle. Once you get left of it, you're basically done with the deep south. Houston is not deep south and Dallas sure as heck isn't and Austin and San Antonio....ha.

Everytime I tell people I'm from the South in Georgia, Alabama, or even up and down the east coast and they ask me what state,I tell them Texas and they quickly correct me and say you're not really in the South and I agree with that. Texas is not as southern as Mississippi, Alabama, or Georgia. While Atlanta has seen some of it's migration come in changed it's southern roots a bit. It's still southern to the core and the rest of the South acknowledges that. Much more Southern than Houston, Dallas, or Miami. If you do need to put it in a region, it's obviously southern. But when you break it down, Texas is simply Texas. Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and the Carolinas are Southeastern which Texas is not part of.

I agree with you it's not all of one but a mix of all it's borders that give it that distinguish style and flavor.

It depends on what region you are in, and in each region you have different cultures and life styles.

[GoingHome2TX]

The way I look at Texas is like most of the other responses on here; Texas is just Texas.

While yes, we did vote ourselves into the CSA, we never did things lilke the rest of the Confederate states in a lot of regards. For example, we were the only state in the CSA to never lose control of our capital to the Yankees. I think this one fact goes a long way in drawing a line in the Southern boundary.

Culturally, we are far too diverse to be lumped as Southern. We are the giant melting pot of poor immigrants that found cheap, fertile land to be plentiful, and with a greater tolerance for our neighbors than the rest of the South. Not to say our history hasn't been smeared by the ignorance of bigotry and racism, but I find it more prevailant east of our borders.

Geographically, we are the collision of the South, the Southwest, the Plains, and Mexico. We can not be called any one region over the other. We are just too diverse in our landscape for such generic lumping of region.

In terms of the culinary arts, we are nothing like the South. This is Texas, and our BBQ is based off an entirely different animal from the rest of the South. If there is ever the need for a definative division line, that should be it. They scorn us for our choice of pit meat, and we scoff at theirs.

No state in the Deep South ever won their own independance like we did. If I remember correctly, the only other states to become their own independant nations in this country were Vermont, California, and Hawaii. Vermont was a patch of land that nobody really fought over for specific control of (American Revolution not withstanding due to the uprising being brought forth by many colonies) and was largely claimed by New York as well, before it was annexed in to the U.S. California was basically an over-night revolt that lasted not much longer and was quick to drop her flag into the dirt to raise the Stars & Stripes. Hawaii doesn't even pertain to this discussion due to their circumstances being entirely different, and their location being completely removed from the Continental U.S.

So, in effect, and to batter the slogan to death, I will contend that Texas is like a whole 'nother country. We have southern heritage, southwestern heritage, among with other heritage, but we are far too expansive to be classified as either. We might be part of the United States of America today, but at heart, I think any Texan will say he or she is a Texan first and formost, and an American second. And for each one of the native sons and daughters that does such is only a reiteration that we are that much more individualistic in our classification.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by GoingHome2TX

The way I look at Texas is like most of the other responses on here; Texas is just Texas.

Absolutely!

While yes, we did vote ourselves into the CSA, we never did things lilke the rest of the Confederate states in a lot of regards. For example, we were the only state in the CSA to never lose control of our capital to the Yankees. I think this one fact goes a long way in drawing a line in the Southern boundary.

For some reason, Texas' history in the Confederacy may be one of the most least understood of all. Texas, at the time, was a pure all out Lower South secession state. Probably the only reason Texas was not the second state to secede was that Gov. Houston refused to call the legislature into secession to consider the question, knowing what the outcome would be.

But yes, the fact the yankees never militarily occuped Texas (as we whipped them each time they tried) is for sure one the things that made us "different"!

Culturally, we are far too diverse to be lumped as Southern. We are the giant melting pot of poor immigrants that found cheap, fertile land to be plentiful, and with a greater tolerance for our neighbors than the rest of the South. Not to say our history hasn't been smeared by the ignorance of bigotry and racism, but I find it more prevailant east of our borders.

All of what you say is true in terms of "immigrants", but what you are saying makes it sound like you are seperating Texas from the South just because you don't want it to be tied to it. And something to think of too? Many of the diverse (German, etc) population which settled Texas (same as the French in Louisiana) assimilated with the larger Upper and Lower migration of the Southern United States which dominated Texas history/culture. They were Southern too.

Geographically, we are the collision of the South, the Southwest, the Plains, and Mexico. We can not be called any one region over the other. We are just too diverse in our landscape for such generic lumping of region.

In terms of topography, Texas has almost all except huge mountains. I am proud of that and brag about it! By gawd! LOL Historically and culturally, again, while Texas IS Texas...we are essentially Southern.

In terms of the culinary arts, we are nothing like the South. This is Texas, and our BBQ is based off an entirely different animal from the rest of the South. If there is ever the need for a definative division line, that should be it. They scorn us for our choice of pit meat, and we scoff at theirs.

True. But put it in a larger perspective. Compare the culinary arts not with the southeast so much, but with the Midwest, West or Northeast. Which does Texas have more in common with? BBQ, okra, catfish, etc....

I think any Texan will say he or she is a Texan first and formost, and an American second. And for each one of the native sons and daughters that does such is only a reiteration that we are that much more individualistic in our classification.

But I am a Southerner too. And there is no contradiction. All the things I LOVE about Texas reflect Southern roots. I am proud of the blends of sweet tea and black-eyed peas and Tex-Mex!

Proud Native Son of the Great Southern State Republic of Texas !

[GoingHome2TX]

It is like one of our previous discussions in regards to the accent. We are Southern with a twist, and that twist is what seperates us and makes us unique. I am not going to deny the existance of a lot of Southern influence in our state. To do so would be sheer folly. It is just that we are Southern with a twist.

And I am not seperating us from the South one bit. Of our six flags, the highest I will wave will always be The Lone Star, placing the CSA right under it, with the Stars & Stripes below that. (And before anyone jumps to conclusions, no I do not believe in slavery or condone the idea at all.)

We had the Mexican/Hispanic influence and more of the Native American influence than the rest of the South did, along with the African-American and Anglo influences they had.

My forefathers came from Kentucky and North Carolina before setting roots in Texas in the early 1820s. I still will only classify myself as a proud native son of the Republic of Texas, though. It implies Southern in it, just with so much more!