Dallas vs Houston...for international flight options! (San Pedro: cities, economy)

[KerrTown]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch

DFW is definitely a nicer airport. IAH is in the middle of basically rebuilding half the airport though so they'll be much more comparable once that's done.

It's a terrible hub airport with the baggage claim exits on every gate. Great for origin-or-destination passengers but terrible for connecting passengers unfamiliar with the layout who might accidentally exit and face a long security line back in (daytime) or closed security line (nighttime) and missing their flight or close to it, either way.

Originally Posted by lepoisson

The American Airlines monopoly at DFW is really detrimental. It also makes the prices VERY high. I flew from DFW to CDG in December and a round trip coach ticket was $1000. Similar flights from ORD were a few hundred less.

Not just the monopoly but the home town advantage that drives traffic through the hub. American's headquarters are on the southern end of the airport, on the site of the separate former-Fort Worth city airport. Delta is based in Atlanta, the busiest airport in the world. United may have stayed in Chicago, but IAH is currently the largest volume for the airline as well as Continental making up the bulk of their intellectual assets currently in use.

Visiting ORD made me astonished at the massive fleets of both United and American on the same airport, which is rare in the sunbelt as one airline dominates in the market. Surprisingly Delta has announced expansion of service to Houston (they are in both airports) with more flights to the Cincinnati hub.

[BCLRRE]

Originally Posted by KerrTown

It's a terrible hub airport with the baggage claim exits on every gate. Great for origin-or-destination passengers but terrible for connecting passengers unfamiliar with the layout who might accidentally exit and face a long security line back in (daytime) or closed security line (nighttime) and missing their flight or close to it, either way.



Not just the monopoly but the home town advantage that drives traffic through the hub. American's headquarters are on the southern end of the airport, on the site of the separate former-Fort Worth city airport. Delta is based in Atlanta, the busiest airport in the world. United may have stayed in Chicago, but IAH is currently the largest volume for the airline as well as Continental making up the bulk of their intellectual assets currently in use.

Visiting ORD made me astonished at the massive fleets of both United and American on the same airport, which is rare in the sunbelt as one airline dominates in the market. Surprisingly Delta has announced expansion of service to Houston (they are in both airports) with more flights to the Cincinnati hub.

I agree, DFW is a big sterile typical looking brown/beige bore. IAH is definitely the nicest to me...it's futuristic looking, extremely spacious, clean and distinctly modern. Half of it has undergone a billion dollar makeover and it's really nice. The other half is in the transformation process now of another billion dollar makeover with a renovated swath opening every 6mos, or so. It really doesn't look like an airport...the huge wide transformed corridors and concourses are glossy and filled with fabulous restaurants, amenitities and bars along every stretch...looks more like the Galleria with departing flights.

[HP48G]

Originally Posted by lepoisson

I always found the international options from DFW to be rather limited. For the 3rd or 4th busiest airport in the WORLD, they don't offer very many flights to Europe. They only have one non-stop flight per day to Paris.

The American Airlines monopoly at DFW is really detrimental. It also makes the prices VERY high. I flew from DFW to CDG in December and a round trip coach ticket was $1000. Similar flights from ORD were a few hundred less.

The market is always challenging for new entrants in a hub with a dominant carrier. Air France doesn't serve Dallas because it's in a weak financial situation so it just gets traffic from Delta connecting in Atlanta.

At least there will be a nonstop to Rome and Amsterdam this summer!.

[Mr. Clutch]

Originally Posted by HP48G

The market is always challenging for new entrants in a hub with a dominant carrier. Air France doesn't serve Dallas because it's in a weak financial situation so it just gets traffic from Delta connecting in Atlanta.

At least there will be a nonstop to Rome and Amsterdam this summer!.

CDG-DFW just isn't a very big or high-yielding market. CDG-IAH is a little bigger/higher-yielding, but its not really anything special either.

If United had never dropped CDG-IAH, it's arguable that Air France would still be there. United just blinked first. This wasn't the case with AA since I don't think Air France has served CDG-DFW is probably 15 years, AA has long had that market to themselves.

[davis449]

Originally Posted by BCLRRE

I agree, DFW is a big sterile typical looking brown/beige bore. IAH is definitely the nicest to me...it's futuristic looking, extremely spacious, clean and distinctly modern. Half of it has undergone a billion dollar makeover and it's really nice. The other half is in the transformation process now of another billion dollar makeover with a renovated swath opening every 6mos, or so. It really doesn't look like an airport...the huge wide transformed corridors and concourses are glossy and filled with fabulous restaurants, amenitities and bars along every stretch...looks more like the Galleria with departing flights.

DFW just finished the Terminal A remodel at $850M (took a while due to size and shear number of gates, just as B and C will). This is part of a $2.7B renovation to all four original terminals. I think E is almost half way done as it's number of gates is much lower despite being the same relative size as A, B, and C. Terminal D is an amazing modern international terminal. All of the outsides are being altered and accented as well. The remodel pictures I've seen of Terminal A look exactly as you describe in regards to IAH.

American's headquarters are on the southern end of the airport, on the site of the separate former-Fort Worth city airport.

Their HQ isn't on the airport grounds and the airport the industrial park where they have their operations was Greater Southwest Airport (Formerly Amon Carter Field). The runway markings are still visible at intersection of Trinity and Amon Carter Blvd. The Amon Carter Blvd. "Runway" still runs across TX 183 as a road. The very end is blocked off after the stoplight at Amon Carter Blvd. and TX 183.

[jackalope48]

IIRC that DFW-Sydney Quantus flight most of the time stops in Brisbane to get more fuel and let folks off before going on to Sydney and Melbourne. Think the United ones leave from SFO and goes straight in. In other words not much difference. Europe, Asia, Africa, and Aus/NZ are pretty much the same anyway. Even without a direct there is a switch on either coast that gets you there in similar time. Houston has far superior direct flights to the Caribbean and Central and South America.

[lepoisson]

Originally Posted by HP48G

The market is always challenging for new entrants in a hub with a dominant carrier. Air France doesn't serve Dallas because it's in a weak financial situation so it just gets traffic from Delta connecting in Atlanta.

At least there will be a nonstop to Rome and Amsterdam this summer!.

Yeah, it's a problem. The lack of competition at DFW and IAH really keeps prices high.

For science, I checked prices from ORD, DFW, IAH, IAD, JFK, LAX, and ATL to CDG with the same dates in December. The cheapest prices are:

ORD: $708 (non-stop with Air France)
DFW: $925 (with two stops on the return), $1015 (non-stop with AA, or 1 stop with AA/mix of others)
IAH: $1050 (Singapore Airlines with a stop in MAN), $1146 (non-stop with Air France)
ATL: $918 (non-stop through Air France/Delta)
IAD: $648 (1 stop at JFK through Delta), $707 (non-stop through Air France)
JFK: $550 (1 stop in MAD through Iberia), $840 (non-stop through Air France)
LAX: $594 (1 stop in PHL with AA/British), $833 (non-stop through Air Tahiti)

As you can see, the flight options from the Texas airports are rather limited and always the most expensive, even with a layover. The monopolies are really detrimental to pricing. I flew from DFW-CDG in December and the cost difference between a non-stop and 1-stop was only about $75.

DFW seems like it focuses more on cross-country layovers (like if you want to fly from RDU to ABQ), or flights to Mexico and South America.

Airports like ORD, JFK, LAX, and IAD shine because you can get REALLY cheap flights to Europe with 1-stop through Iceland Air, Norwegian, Finn Air, Turkish Airlines, and WOW Air.

[GoodHombre]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch

IAH has more international flights and more options than DFW. It's really pretty cut and dry, Houston has a much more interenationally-oriented economy than DFW. DFW skews far more domestic in terms of demand.

Unique int'l destinations from DFW not served from IAH (not counting seasonal routes):

Europe/Asia/Africa/Oceania
- Abu Dhabi
- Sydney
- Shanghai
- Hong Kong

North and South America + Caribbean
- Torreon

Unique int'l destinations from IAH not served from DFW (not counting seasonal routes):

Europe/Asia/Africa/Oceania
- Amsterdam (offered seasonally at DFW)
- Auckland
- Taipei
- Manchester
- Singapore (one-stop)
- Istanbul

North and South America + Caribbean
- Aruba
- Caracas
- Edmonton
- Grand Cayman (offered seasonally at DFW)
- San Pedro Sula
- Tegucigalpa
- Havana
- Merida (offered seasonally at DFW)
- Nassau (offered seasonally at DFW)
- Punta Cana (offered seasonally at DFW)
- Acapulco
- Ciudad del Carmen
- Huatulco
- Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo (offered seasonally at DFW)
- Manzanillo
- Oaxaca
- Tampico
- Veracruz
- Villahermosa

May have missed a couple here or there, but hope this helps!

There's a nonstop flight between Beijing and IAH.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Houston-Intercontinental definitely. But DFW has a good international flight scene as well.

The only Latin American country Houston doesn't fly to is Bolivia, Paraguay and Uruguay. DFW misses those as well as Cuba, Venezuela, Honduras, Dominican Republic. It also doesn't have direct service to Rio.

In Europe, both fly to London, Frsnkfurt and Paris as well as amsterdam (yearlong for Houston, seasonal for DFW). Houston also flies to Manchester, Munich. While DFW flies to Madrid and seasonal service to Rome that Houston doesn't have. If Istanbul is considered Europe, it has service to Houston.

In East Asia, both fly to Seoul, Beijing, and Tokyo. Houston also goes to Taipei, Singapore and New Zealand. DFW has service to Hong Long and Shanghai and sydney.

In the Middle East both go to Doha and Dubai. DFW goes to Abu Dabhi, and if you consider Istanbul in the Middle East, it had Houston service.

Houston also has a good bit more of international carriers serving the airpor.

Over all, Houston beats Dallas, but Dallas is nearly up there.

[beasley106]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Houston-Intercontinental definitely. But DFW has a good international flight scene as well.

The only Latin American country Houston doesn't fly to is Bolivia, Paraguay and Uruguay. DFW misses those as well as Cuba, Venezuela, Honduras, Dominican Republic. It also doesn't have direct service to Rio.

In Europe, both fly to London, Frsnkfurt and Paris as well as amsterdam (yearlong for Houston, seasonal for DFW). Houston also flies to Manchester, Munich. While DFW flies to Madrid and seasonal service to Rome that Houston doesn't have. If Istanbul is considered Europe, it has service to Houston.

In East Asia, both fly to Seoul, Beijing, and Tokyo. Houston also goes to Taipei, Singapore and New Zealand. DFW has service to Hong Long and Shanghai and sydney.

In the Middle East both go to Doha and Dubai. DFW goes to Abu Dabhi, and if you consider Istanbul in the Middle East, it had Houston service.

Houston also has a good bit more of international carriers serving the airpor.

Over all, Houston beats Dallas, but Dallas is nearly up there.

DFW actually currently has flights to nonstop flights to Honduras (they fly to Roatan), plus they also in the past had flights to Venezuela in the past until their economy collapsed thanks to Hugo Chavez.