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Lol dude stop, your homer is showing, better cover it up.
Galveston and Houston are seperate. Even more so in 1900 when by the travel times of the day they were even further apart.
Houston is roughly about the same age as Dallas and that is why they look so similar and have similar pre and post war growth paterns.
We're talking about history here not population or economic growth quit conflating the two. Do you really think DFW has even the historical significance of Galveston alone in the formation of this State ? Much less South east and south Texas in tandem ? Name it ?
Last edited by Jack Lance; 11-27-2019 at 04:03 PM..
Lol jack what was the last book you read on Texas History?
My last few ive read in the last year are:
-Lone Star by Fehrenbac
-The Big Rich by Burrough
-Texas Ranger: The Epic Life of Frank Hamer, the Man Who Killed Bonnie and Clyde by Boessenecker
- Robert Caro's Bio of LBJ (well, the parts that are out)
-The Texian Illiad, A millitary history of the Texas Revolution by Hardin
And "Fairwell to a River" which isn't really history but its a fun read.
You?
Bonnie and Clyde ? LOL that's what you consider Texas history you have got to be kidding...
1837 vs 1841. In terms of city ages Dallas and Houston are contemporaries. And during the early history Dallas was the bigger city.
If you want to play this game Dallas was bigger than Houston from 1850 till the 1930 census when Houston passed Dallas. They have a similar amount of Pre War Urban Fabric.
Most of What Houston has that makes them bigger than Dallas is Post War and Suburban in Design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdogg817
Facts....In a weird way they try to make Houston out to be like it’s this old city like New Orleans that had major historical significance. Houston was never at any point in its history the “it” city in Texas. It was the “it” city of its region. The same can be applied to all Texas big cities. New Orleans on the other hand did have the “it” factor and had major historical significance. Hell St. Louis, Kansas City, and Memphis all where more important then Texas cities back in the day. Houston is the largest city in Texas because of square mileage. If you spread Dallas out over the same square miles they would roughly have the same population.
LOL, these are some funny dudes right here. It never fails on City Data. Let's go over some facts here because Treasure didn't state any facts.
1.Houston was founded in 1836 and INCORPORATED in 1837. That year there were 1,500 residents and homes built in the newly incorporated city of Houston.
2. Dallas was founded in 1841 but wasn't INCORPORATED till 1856.
3. In 1860 Dallas had a population of around 678 people with 97 of those being enslaved African Americans. In that same year of 1860, Houston had 1,060 enslaved African Americans and 8 Freed Black people in that same time frame. African American's made up 49% of Houston's population. Meaning the AA population alone was bigger than the entire population of Dallas at the time.
- So from 1837-1872 Houston had a couple of significant incidents that helped shaped Texas and define the city.
1. Houston immediately became the temporary capital of Texas.
2. In 1840, a year before Dallas was founded. The city of Houston was divided into 4 wards. Remember some of these wards still exist to this day.
3. Houston founded it's chamber of commerce in 1840, Dallas wasn't until 1893.
4. Sam Houston had moved the capital back to the city of Houston in 1842. Around this same time Dallas was founded but hadn't even gained any significance since it was in it's infancy from almost being just a trading post.
5. Houston was building a rail system in the 1850's before Dallas was incorporated.
6. Galveston and Houston businessmen collaborated to break ground on the Houston and Texas Central railway which began construction in Houston in 1856. The exact same year Dallas was incorporated.
7. That railway along with the Texas and Pacific railway(which started in my birthplace of Marshall,Texas btw) literally changed Dallas over night considering these railways went right through the city of Dallas.
8. You can pretty much say had it not been for Houston's role in the HTC railway, Dallas probably wouldn't be the booming city it is today.
9. Also in 1870, the Texas State Fair was in Houston for atleast 8 years till it moved to Dallas.
From 1836 to 1880's Houston was the more populated city. Dallas became the bigger city from 1890 to the 1920s. Houston became the bigger city once again in the 1930's and remains that way to this day.
I don't even know where you get Dallas was a bigger a city than Houston in that long of a period when again Dallas wasn't incorporated as a city till 1856 and only had a population of 678 in 1860. You might want to go back and do your math or read your books cause your info is wrong on that.
Also the main factor as to why Dallas surpassed Houston for a couple of decades were due to the fact that Dallas annexed East Dallas. Most of Dallas population growth during that time much like Houston came by way of annexation.
Also you said Houston and Galveston were separate yet both during the 1800's leading up to the early 1900's had a relationship with one another due to close proximity/being the most important cities in Texas at that time. They both had economic impacts that effected the state which complemented each other.
At that time Houston was an important river port and was the only interior part of Texas that could be served by water transportation. Simply put, exports leaving Texas were coming from Houston and the Buffalo Bayou and arriving in Galveston taking off elsewhere. Both cities had a bit of a economic rivalry if you really go back and do your research you'll know this. They have plenty of historical sites in both Houston and Galveston that break this down in more detail as well.
By the way just like many southern cities Houston's culture was heavily influenced by the Black population. This is what I meant by saying "Houston is an older city after all so they tend to sway a little better along with the inclusion those communities are open to". Because African Americans had been a contributing factor to the culture of the city since it's founding. The oldest park in Houston is still standing right in 3rd Ward. The Emancipation park which held the first Juneteenth celebration in the state. Now the entire country recognizes the holiday due to what was told in Galveston and immediately celebrated in Houston. The presence and the contribution being so embedded in the fabric of Houston helps with the inclusion attitude that I was speaking on. Not saying it's a racial utopia because it's not. We're still in America. But the simple fact is Houston acknowledges it's diverse populations contribution and that starts with the AA that can trace communities back in the 1800's. That was my point. Freedman town aka 4th ward and 3rd ward are still standing.
As far as K-Dogg why are you deflecting? Is that some insecurities maybe? Nobody said anything about Houston being just as significant historically as New Orleans, St. Louis or any other city for that matter. You and Treasure know i'm comparing Houston to Dallas and only Dallas. I'm not even from Houston, i'm from East Texas and I was born in Marshall which contributed A LOT to the Black growth in DFW during that period. When Houston and Harrison county(Marshall) had the biggest black populations and cultural significance in the state for Black people.
Yall need to get out of your feelings and do some more studying. I don't have a dog in the fight.
@redlionjr I could not rep you again but thanks for all that legwork!
I would just add that Texas Independence was gained right here in Houston at the battle of San Jacinto...can't get much more historical than that! Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad!
Houston's nice neighborhoods are not as consistent as Dallas'. If you drive through the nice neighborhoods in Dallas you know you are in a nice neighborhood. In Houston the whole neighborhood is not nice. You have 3 nice houses then a mansion then a regular house that don't belong... then a house thats good boned but not well kept. then a nice house then a corner store.
The Houston Bayou was done really nice but in Dallas we have Turtle Creek.....with a 25 story Manderin Oriental and residences currently under construction in front of it.....
Does The Bayou sprout that kind of Prestigious development????.....I don't think ANY part of Houston does......not even River Oaks.
Getting back to luxury Hotels
The recently opened Cambria Hotel Houston Downtown Convention Center has received AAA's designation as a Four Diamond Hotel.
The 226-room hotel at 1314 Texas Ave. is the first Cambria Hotel in Houston, and the first from the Cambria brand to be awarded the AAA Four Diamond distinction. Cambria is the upscale brand of Choice Hotels International with 50 hotels in the U.S. and 75 more in the pipeline.
The article has a great slide show of the only 3 five diamond hotels in Texas
Bonnie and Clyde ? LOL that's what you consider Texas history you have got to be kidding...
Clearly you neither know anything about him nor read the book. The book isn't even about Bonnie and Clyde....
The story covers everthing from the Rio Grand in Far West Texas to breaking of Lynch mobs all over east Texas to disputes with the corrupt Ma and Pa Furgesons in Austin.
What was the last historical book you read about Texas?
Also you said Houston and Galveston were separate yet both during the 1800's leading up to the early 1900's had a relationship with one another due to close proximity/being the most important cities in Texas at that time. They both had economic impacts that effected the state which complemented each other.
At that time Houston was an important river port and was the only interior part of Texas that could be served by water transportation. Simply put, exports leaving Texas were coming from Houston and the Buffalo Bayou and arriving in Galveston taking off elsewhere. Both cities had a bit of a economic rivalry if you really go back and do your research you'll know this. They have plenty of historical sites in both Houston and Galveston that break this down in more detail as well.
.
See this is where you are wrong. In the 1890s-1900 Both Dallas and San Antonio were more important than Houston. Galveston was the important regional city in what is now greater Houston. Houston became more important after Galveston was all wrecked.
Houston didnt even have navigable ocean access until they dredged what became the port of houston.
You are right about the Railroads. Texas grew on the railroads and federal spending on those, much more than via ports or ocean acess. There are not many natural deep water ports in Texas and it still has a relativly under developed coast.
Over all, no city in Texas was very important till about the 1880s, most of Texas was rural and inland. Texas didnt really urbanize till the 1900s, a few decades behind most places east of the Mississippi.
The fact that the Capitol moved back and forth a couple times based on what made sense for a couple years or based on worries about Camanchie raids shows even more so how neither city was really all that important.
The early history of Anglo Texas hinges on the Treeline, not Houston or Dallas.
We're talking about history here not population or economic growth quit conflating the two. Do you really think DFW has even the historical significance of Galveston alone in the formation of this State ? Much less South east and south Texas in tandem ? Name it ?
Early history? Of course Galveston is more important than Dallas or Houston.
It isnt very important to American history over all.
The last 120 years? (Also history) Dallas has been way more important to creating modern Texas than Galveston. It has prob overshadowed Galveston at this point. DWF has been critical to Texas Urban history in the last 100+ years. Dallas matters alot more to American history than Galveston.
Clearly you neither know anything about him nor read the book. The book isn't even about Bonnie and Clyde....
The story covers everthing from the Rio Grand in Far West Texas to breaking of Lynch mobs all over east Texas to disputes with the corrupt Ma and Pa Furgesons in Austin.
What was the last historical book you read about Texas?
Growing up in Texas we were required to take classes in Texas History, I really can't remember the names of the text books that were used but there was more than one. I have visited The San Jacinto Battleground State Park, I have been to the Alamo, I have read extensive articles from the Texas Historical Society, and many other creditable sources that deal with early Texas History not 20th century legends. Do you have any idea of how the Texas Rangers were formed. I'm talking about the Law enforcement agency not the baseball team now, and where this took place ?
If you truly did read these books you listed and came out with the impression that Southeast and South Texas were not important in the early formation of Texas militarily , economically, and culturally then I have to question your reading comprehension .
Do you know what the Treaty of Velasco is ? Do you know where Velasco Texas was and what it is called now ? Do you know what the runaway scrap was ? Go ahead and Google those terms and get back to us and tell us how unimportant they all are....
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Please enlighten us JACK....pretty please!!!
.....not even River Oaks
