Texas being excluded from the South (Houston, Dallas: legally, beach, educational)

[Redlionjr]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Bear

I don't have time to do a long reply to all of this....but only 4 states have Mexico as a border.
California and Texas are two of them.
Texas and California are not night and day. They are actually more similar than they are different.


Mexico has a huge influence on both California and Texas, and in that respect it makes them unique from almost any other states in the USA save Arizona and New Mexico.

That is what I mean by being cousins.

Im going to completely disagree with you in terms of your city comparison. Houston and Dallas are more similar to Los Angeles and Phoenix than Atlanta and Charlotte.

Atlanta(Georgia) and Charlotte (North Carolina) do not have a huge Hispanic populace that Los Angles, Dallas, Phoenix and Houston all have.

These cities all have similar conflicts when it comes to education, suburban planning, politics, and demographic changes.

This exactly what I'm talking about when I say that Texas is not the Deep South. The Deep South does not have a huge Mexican influence that is prevalent in Texas and California.

Mexican Culture, Cowboys, ranching, Vacqueros....these are all things that are associated with Western Culture.

What is a Western?

Its a cowboy movie.

Mexico also has a huge influence on Chicago too. So I guess Houston and Dallas are distant cousins to Chicago as well?

I'm sorry but having a large Mexican population doesn't mean Texas is more like California than it is to other southern states. Yes those 2 states are similar in that regards but Texas has a lot more similarities to the rest of the south that makes Texas more relatable than it does to California.

Examples: Texas has a heavily Southern Baptist Evangelical Protestant population in this country. Texas culture and values are heavily influenced by this group.

Politically, Texas aligns more with other southern states than California. Major cities in Texas are generally more liberal and democratic like major cities in other southern states as well. Outside of those major states Texas leans a lot more to the right. California is overwhelmingly left and it's not even close.

Texas is also a gun pro state. Now of course states like Arizona are in that category but so is Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina.

Also Texas was a Jim Crow state. Segregation was required in Texas no different than other states in the south. It was legal in Texas prior to Brown vs. Board of Education. Educational segregation was forbidden in California. Texas also had a huge KKK presence. You didn't find a KKK presence of that caliber in California. Also Texas had one of the highest numbers of lynching's of Black people in the country.

No matter how much Houston and Dallas wants to be like Los Angeles it's not even in the same tier to be considered like LA or a LA version in Texas. Houston is definitely a splash of Baton Rouge in look mixed with Central Florida. It's a international gulf coast city. Not a Westcoast city. It's a Bayou city. Since when was LA or San Diego a Bayou City? DFW has similar structure to LA-Long Beach in how it's principal cities and suburban cities relationship in it's MSA are. But these cities don't feel anything like LA. IMO, from living in Atlanta and Houston there more closely related than LA is to Houston.

If anything Texas east of 35 is Southern with some Mexican influence. Major cities are anomalies because they're major metropolitan areas. And I'll exclude San Antonio and anything south of it from that category. Everything west of 35 can be considered southwest even though it's not completely like New Mexico/ Arizona or Nevada till you get to the western most region of the state. And even than that's the least populated part of the state.

Also cowboys and ranching can be found in Louisiana and Florida as well. Btw, growing up in Northeast Texas I couldn't tell you anything about Cowboys or ranching. Maybe the Dallas Cowboys but not any real Cowboys. Wasn't a common site all my years living there.

Lynching Statistics

From 1882-1968 Arizona/California/Nevada/New Mexico had a combined total of 5. 5 lynching's compared to Texas 352. That's on par with states like Mississippi/Louisiana/Alabama.

Also the African American cultural contributions to the state that simply didn't exist in California till after the great migration. Which btw, most Black Californian's ancestry can be traced back to Louisiana, Mississippi and another southern state called Texas.

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

To me, having moved here from Atlanta, Texas has southern traits, but it doesn’t feel anywhere near as southern as the southeastern states feel. It feels kind of a hybrid between Southern, Western, The southern hospitality is here, atleast in some spots, but the soul food is completely lacking here. Our food culture definitely resembles more of a western vibe than a southern vibe, well besides the brisket atleast. Also the Hispanic culture here has a much greater influence on the state than places in the southeast, it’s much closer in resemblance to NM, AZ and SoCal in that regard.

Wait what? I'm sorry but I lived in Atlanta and I was highly disappointed by the soul food in Atlanta. And I tried just about all the popular spots. Mary Mac's/ Busy Bee Café/ Walters Soul Food/Big Daddy's Kitchen,etc. Don't get me wrong it was some decent spots but for a city that's without question Southern it was a let down. And this is something me and plenty of Texas and Louisiana transplants in Atlanta would talk about all the time. How many mediocre restaurants were in the city.

With that said, maybe Austin is more west than Southern, there is a gang of California transplants there so that's understandable but what's Western about the cuisine? Tex Mex is not even Western. Houston is a lot of gulf coast cuisine, Creole and Cajun influences,etc. That's not western.

Btw, I'd choose Sweet Georgia Brown, Aunt Irene, Miki's soul food, The Greasy Spoon over any soul food restaurant in Atlanta. Those establishments are in Dallas and Houston btw. Ironically I was told even by local Georgia natives that I should go to Chattanooga or Savannah for better food. Never got the chance to hit up Savannah but the 2 years I lived in Atlanta the best Fried Chicken I had was when we drove to Chattanooga and ate at Champy's. That and Gus's chicken but that's a Memphis transplant. I can go on and on about Atlanta's mediocre food scene.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

To me, having moved here from Atlanta, Texas has southern traits, but it doesn’t feel anywhere near as southern as the southeastern states feel. It feels kind of a hybrid between Southern, Western, The southern hospitality is here, atleast in some spots, but the soul food is completely lacking here. Our food culture definitely resembles more of a western vibe than a southern vibe, well besides the brisket atleast. Also the Hispanic culture here has a much greater influence on the state than places in the southeast, it’s much closer in resemblance to NM, AZ and SoCal in that regard.

What part of Texas? It’s a huge state, so it can range from being very Southwestern to very Southern just by virtue of where you are.

Texas is too big to be any one thing. It’s one of few states where you can drive from sunup to sundown without leaving the state. Maybe that does make Texas it’s own thing, but to me it’s a geographically huge place with a lot of different sides just based on what part of the state you’re in.

[RonnieinDallas]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Working my way through this old thread, but as a 7th generation Texan (we were here before the Republic and were instrumental in there being a Republic and then a State in the first place), this says it best. Texas is not part of the South. Texas is simply Texas, its own region of the country.

^^^
This

Couldn’t rep you but agree

[KathrynAragon]

Texas is Texas but it's a southern state -- geographically and historically. Sorry, folks.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Redlionjr

Wait what? I'm sorry but I lived in Atlanta and I was highly disappointed by the soul food in Atlanta. And I tried just about all the popular spots. Mary Mac's/ Busy Bee Café/ Walters Soul Food/Big Daddy's Kitchen,etc. Don't get me wrong it was some decent spots but for a city that's without question Southern it was a let down. And this is something me and plenty of Texas and Louisiana transplants in Atlanta would talk about all the time. How many mediocre restaurants were in the city.

With that said, maybe Austin is more west than Southern, there is a gang of California transplants there so that's understandable but what's Western about the cuisine? Tex Mex is not even Western. Houston is a lot of gulf coast cuisine, Creole and Cajun influences,etc. That's not western.

Btw, I'd choose Sweet Georgia Brown, Aunt Irene, Miki's soul food, The Greasy Spoon over any soul food restaurant in Atlanta. Those establishments are in Dallas and Houston btw. Ironically I was told even by local Georgia natives that I should go to Chattanooga or Savannah for better food. Never got the chance to hit up Savannah but the 2 years I lived in Atlanta the best Fried Chicken I had was when we drove to Chattanooga and ate at Champy's. That and Gus's chicken but that's a Memphis transplant. I can go on and on about Atlanta's mediocre food scene.

True about the Cajun food.

As far as soul food goes, for me in Atlanta metro, the better spots for soul food were those hole in the wall family owned restaurants, not the big name ones. I haven’t found anything in TX that resembles what we had in GA in terms of soul food. I tried looking around but the GA sisters seem to do a lot better job at it from my personal tastes. When it comes to overall food, TX wins in just about every other category except Mexican. I’ve found Mexican here to be hit or miss. Some do it very good, others shouldn’t even be in business. I’ve found the Mexican food in Norcross, Lilburn and some parts of Lawrenceville to be a lot more consistent and it’s also pretty good.

Originally Posted by jcp123

What part of Texas? It’s a huge state, so it can range from being very Southwestern to very Southern just by virtue of where you are.

Texas is too big to be any one thing. It’s one of few states where you can drive from sunup to sundown without leaving the state. Maybe that does make Texas it’s own thing, but to me it’s a geographically huge place with a lot of different sides just based on what part of the state you’re in.

I’m based out of Austin metro but frequently visit Houston and Dallas, although it’s been a moment since I’ve been to Houston. I will agree that Texas is too large to generalize, this is kind of why I feel Texas is a hybrid of many regions and isn’t truly dominated by one specific culture.

[ScoPro]

This map should settle the argument...

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by ScoPro

This map should settle the argument...

I've... ...never been up I-35 north of DFW until its Texan border with Canada...

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

Texas is Texas but it's a southern state -- geographically and historically. Sorry, folks.

Only if you completely ignore all of the state other than deep East Texas (and I was born and bred in East Texas, so I get where you're coming from, but while I WANTED Texas to be part of the South when I was a little girl, I grew up and faced the reality not too long after that).



The ONLY way that Texas can be said to be part of the South is if you deliberately ignore everything about it except for one little region that fits that.

[ScoPro]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I've... ...never been up I-35 north of DFW until its Texan border with Canada...

How about this one for confirfation?

[Redlionjr]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

True about the Cajun food.

As far as soul food goes, for me in Atlanta metro, the better spots for soul food were those hole in the wall family owned restaurants, not the big name ones. I haven’t found anything in TX that resembles what we had in GA in terms of soul food. I tried looking around but the GA sisters seem to do a lot better job at it from my personal tastes. When it comes to overall food, TX wins in just about every other category except Mexican. I’ve found Mexican here to be hit or miss. Some do it very good, others shouldn’t even be in business. I’ve found the Mexican food in Norcross, Lilburn and some parts of Lawrenceville to be a lot more consistent and it’s also pretty good.



I’m based out of Austin metro but frequently visit Houston and Dallas, although it’s been a moment since I’ve been to Houston. I will agree that Texas is too large to generalize, this is kind of why I feel Texas is a hybrid of many regions and isn’t truly dominated by one specific culture.

Hey I'll defend Atlanta on a lot of things. I'll even say Atlanta has better Caribbean options and Italian food than any city in Texas. Granted these are imports that add to the culinary scene but hey they're still in Atlanta MSA. I'll even say they have better options of wings. Soul Food and Mexican food though ain't one.

Now you do live in Austin and frequent Houston and Dallas. If your basing Texas Mexican food off of Austin than yeah Atlanta metro would be better. I never ran into a good Mexican restaurant in Austin. I know it's there but it's pretty lackluster for being in Texas. But Atlanta Mexican food scene imo was so underwhelming. And me and my wife lived less than 5 minutes from Buford Hwy. My Wife could cook better Mexican food than the places we went to in Atlanta MSA. And yeah I wasn't really impressed with the hole in the wall soul food joints either.

How I summed up Atlanta food scene is, you gotta get through a lot of mediocre places to enjoy the really good memorable food. You would think Atlanta would be one of the best cities for soul food considering it's status in Black America but highly disappointed.

This list of Best Soul food in America summed up how I feel about my experiences with soul food in Atlanta Metro. Only one establishment (Busy Bee cafe) made the cut out of a metro of 2 million Black people.

New Orleans/ Houston/ and NYC made the list several times which I would agree with. Even though I wonder why no Memphis soul food joint made the list.

https://www.thedailymeal.com/eat/bes...erica/slide-35