Texas being excluded from the South (Houston, Dallas: horse, baptists, tree)

[supfromthesite]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

The video is basically comparing urban hipster Hispanics (giving them the name "California Mexicans") and rural Tejano Hispanics (giving them the name "Texas Hispanics"). On the contrary, California Mexicans and Texas Mexicans are not that different at all.

Now if you're comparing the Mexican community in George West to the Mexican community in San Diego, I can see where that seems accurate. But having lived in LA, Chicago, Dallas, and Houston, the Mexican communities are not much different in the way they present themselves, act, and dress. Its because in those cities the bulk of the Mexican communities are foreign born. People in those cities may be from different parts of Mexico but the differences are not that noticeable to an American.

Which San Diego are we talking about here?

But I have tons of buddies who are not rural or from a small town and they are exactly like the Texas guy in the video besides the cowboy hat.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

These right here. (And I'm from East Texas, and an older female, but don't fit the demographic that insists that Texas is Southern because they want it to be - I grew out of that.)

Same ole,same ole, THL. This supercilious insistence that those of us who consider Texas to be essentially a Southern state do so only because they/we "want it to be". It is also insulting so hy can't you just accept that some do so because they/we have considered factual and properly sourced sudies/information/evidence and just arrived at a different conclusion than you. If you don't want to consider yourself a Southerner,then groovy,it's no skin off my nose(although the Census Bureau counts you as one, regardless). Great too that you have "outgrown" all that (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean). Apparantly you consider such to mean those whose world-view doesn't square with your own are l still living in never-never land. Actually it may be that you are the one living in a dream world if you think opinions on this tired old topic that difer from yours can only be victims of thier own delusions. Whether you agree with others or not, it wouldn't hurt to try and cease the haughty condecension when you encounter an opinion diferent from yours; in the end, all of them -- yours as well-- are just personal opinions anyway-- no more and no less. There is no right or wrong answer on the question anyway; hells bells,if there was, this thread would have ended long ago.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Only if you completely ignore all of the state other than deep East Texas (and I was born and bred in East Texas, so I get where you're coming from, but while I WANTED Texas to be part of the South when I was a little girl, I grew up and faced the reality not too long after that).



The ONLY way that Texas can be said to be part of the South is if you deliberately ignore everything about it except for one little region that fits that.

This un-necessarry cutting remark is nothing more than your own opinion of someone elses viewpoint...which counts just as much as yours does, THL. Another poster's opinions are not wrong just because you disagree with them. This poster has the "award=winning" credentials to show her ability to write informative and weii-researched piieces for CD.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Only if you are arrogant enough to ignore all of the other influences that have as much or even more influence on what goes into making Texas, Texas. Not South, not Southwestern, not really anything but Texas.



Said as a native Texan with roots back to pre-Republic and ancestors who came here, some from, some through, the South, and some from up North and who has lived in Texas about three and a half times as long as you have.

We all know about your pre-revolution roots in the state,THL,as you constantly bring them up, but how does that boost your opinions on Texas' regional affiliation above anyone elses?

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by supfromthesite

Pretty sure Dallas is way more prestigious than Phoenix.

My question is this. Do pena, and California identify themselves as "Western"?ople in New Mexico, Arizo

Actually, they do; at least according to a regional identity survey done by Dr. James Shortridge, which wapublished in the "Annals of the Association ofAmerican Geographers"in 1984I, Ibelieve it was) while-a majority which found a majority of people in those states considered themselves to live in the West,whereas a majority of Texansurveyed said they lived in the South and considerered themselves to be Southerners.The latter poll was conducted by Dr. John Shelton Reed from the Southern Studies Department at the U of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and is available on-line; or can be googled on-line by using the search terms."John Shelton Reed Southern Focus Poll. Defining the South"

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

This un-necessarry cutting remark is nothing more than your own opinion of someone elses viewpoint...which counts just as much as yours does, THL. Another poster's opinions are not wrong just because you disagree with them. This poster has the "award=winning" credentials to show her ability to write informative and weii-researched piieces for CD.

Thanks, Reb.

Also, I wanted to point out that heck, I wasn't even born in Texas and will not stay in Texas forever either (my plan is to move from here in a few years and it won't even be to a southern state - I plan to move to the Ohio area). I absolutely could not care less whether Texas "is" a southern state or not - it just is, regardless. Geographically, historically, presently. I can't even help that - not even by denying it. Nor can anyone else. I mean, I guess they CAN but it sure does seem ridiculous to me.

It is what it is. Which first and foremost is "Texas" as I've stated over and over again. It's also a southern state. My gosh, it just seems so obvious!

I remember a few years ago I visited south Texas. I was sitting at a restaurant or bar or something talking to someone who lived there - who by the way had a SERIOUS drawl going on - and somehow or other, when I said where I was from I think, this person said "Oh, you're a southerner. We're not southerners down here." I said, "Interesting - I thought I was in SOUTH Texas." And then I thought to myself, "Denial - it's not just a river in Egypt."

I honestly don't get it.

Other than on C-D, which I don't consider to be "real world," I have literally never met another Texan anywhere who didn't consider Texas to be a southern state. So - one person in real life in nearly 30 years. OK. And he spoke with a southern drawl that was more drawly than mine! LOL

[Nuclear Bear]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

Thanks, Reb.

Also, I wanted to point out that heck, I wasn't even born in Texas and will not stay in Texas forever either (my plan is to move from here in a few years and it won't even be to a southern state - I plan to move to the Ohio area). I absolutely could not care less whether Texas "is" a southern state or not - it just is, regardless. Geographically, historically, presently. I can't even help that - not even by denying it. Nor can anyone else. I mean, I guess they CAN but it sure does seem ridiculous to me.

It is what it is. Which first and foremost is "Texas" as I've stated over and over again. It's also a southern state. My gosh, it just seems so obvious!

I remember a few years ago I visited south Texas. I was sitting at a restaurant or bar or something talking to someone who lived there - who by the way had a SERIOUS drawl going on - and somehow or other, when I said where I was from I think, this person said "Oh, you're a southerner. We're not southerners down here." I said, "Interesting - I thought I was in SOUTH Texas." And then I thought to myself, "Denial - it's not just a river in Egypt."

I honestly don't get it.

Other than on C-D, which I don't consider to be "real world," I have literally never met another Texan anywhere who didn't consider Texas to be a southern state. So - one person in real life in nearly 30 years. OK. And he spoke with a southern drawl that was more drawly than mine! LOL

The elephant in the room is who is most likely to consider themselves southern:

1) African Americans
2) Older White People from East Texas

Those demographics cling to the title of "Southern" much harder than other groups. There are cultural reasons for that Im sure, but since Im not in those groups I won't comment.

Reading through this thread it seems like the same 4 people regurgitating the same arguments over and over again.
If you know Texas then its not surprising that the posters that seem to be clinging on to the South the hardest are from East Texas.

I don't think there is a single person on this thread that doesn't acknowledge that Texas has a lot of Southern characteristics....but the Deep South it is not.

The Deep South of the South East United States ends in East Texas. I've heard some folks say that the Deep South ends in Terrell, TX
Its about 150 miles from the Louisiana State line to Terrell, TX.

Its 670 miles from Terrell to El Paso. This 670 miles stretch between DFW and El Paso is not very Southern.
Ft Worth markets itself as "Where the West Begins".....and I agree with that.

[Pilsn3r]

Why can't it be both?

National Geographic

or

Why no one can agree where the South really is (actually has multiple articles)

Colorful Maps
In order, the maps show Texas as: South, Frontier, "Texas" by itself (except parts of west and panhandle Texas), then a mix of south, great plains, and southwest, etc.

I know people (total of 7) in El Paso, they don't consider themselves part of the "South". People I know in Amarillo I'm not sure, never asked. But in Lubbock (3 people), they didn't consider themselves part of the "South" either, but part of the "West". [I disclosed my sample size which does not translate into a statistically sound representation of the residents of those areas ]

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by supfromthesite

Which San Diego are we talking about here?

But I have tons of buddies who are not rural or from a small town and they are exactly like the Texas guy in the video besides the cowboy hat.

And I could also point you to people in LA who dress like that guy.

Thing is that different Mexican communities are way more similar than not. Ive not noticed much difference in Mexican communities in LA, Chicago, Dallas, or Houston except which parts of Mexico they come from.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Bear

Reading through this thread it seems like the same 4 people regurgitating the same arguments over and over again.
If you know Texas then its not surprising that the posters that seem to be clinging on to the South the hardest are from East Texas.

I don't think there is a single person on this thread that doesn't acknowledge that Texas has a lot of Southern characteristics....but the Deep South it is not.

The Deep South of the South East United States ends in East Texas. I've heard some folks say that the Deep South ends in Terrell, TX
Its about 150 miles from the Louisiana State line to Terrell, TX.

Its 670 miles from Terrell to El Paso. This 670 miles stretch between DFW and El Paso is not very Southern.
Ft Worth markets itself as "Where the West Begins".....and I agree with that.

I've specifically stated that Texas is not "the Deep South." I wasn't aware that this debate was over whether or not Texas is "the Deep South" though - it's just a question of whether or not Texas is a southern state.