401 children

[BluesConnect]

Captive FLDS Children This is the link to a web site the FLDS just put online. The children are sooo cute!!! I just hate that this is happening to them, but I blame the flds, not law enforcement. Look at some of the mothers with several children. They had to be very young when they had them. If I were one of the mothers, I would hope someone would come and rescue me!

[Aggie]

For an in depth look at FLDS life consider the book "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop. Only in hard back now but I believe due in paperback this summer. She literally escaped an arranged marriage .... at 14 years, maybe 15 years old ... after seven kids and being traded around, and then expendable.

Guaranteed to make your blood boil ....

[JamesAbilene]

I worry about foster care too, but I am convinced by what I have heard on the news the last few days that the kids are going to the best facilities and homes possible. Hendrick Home for Children in Abilene is taking in about 20 of the kids. I have personal knowledge of that facility and know that the kids are well taken care of in every way. The live in small group homes with foster parents on campus. It is safe, secure, and a great place. All medical needs are supplied, and the kids are cared for through college.

[Pontificator]

Originally Posted by bellestaroftexas

after the various first-hand accounts of former FLDS members etc, you still dont believe that there was sexual abuse of children in the YFZ Ranch? Come on now!
and if you watch the interviews, the plural wives of YFZ Ranch have not ONCE confirmed or denied that, when asked questions directly about it by reporters! they didnt even look "aghast"or "disturbed" by the question! they would reply by changing the subject. if that aint a good strong clue that something ain't right, then i dont know what is.
Texas authorities handled it appropriately.

Amen!!! You couldn't be more right!! Some of these folks need to do some basic reading and searching for the first-hand accounts of folks who escaped this cult. There is sickness beyond belief......and why do folks think they chose this remote location, and posted a guard tower at the entrance????

[trailerguy]

Am I the only one on this board who has any residual respect for the Constitution at all? Seeking Sarah Barlow was the whole purpose of the raid, it is now generally agreed there is no such person, but like the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, it doesn't seem to matter.
I don't have anything to hide from the police either, but if they come kicking in my door, they better damn well have a warrant and probable cause. I do respect law enforcement people, that isn't the issue. The framers of our Constitution had experience with uncontrolled police power, that's why they wrote the Bill of Rights. Anyone who thinks constitutional rights just protect criminals needs to read more history.
I won't argue the FLDS is a wacky church, but it's still a church. Brainwashed, weird or whatever, those people have rights. To take away all their children with no plan on how to care properly for them on the pretext that some of them may possibly have been abused is inexcusable.
I'm sure there are conscious foster parents out there somewhere. The people I know who had been under foster care all had horror stories to tell. I strongly doubt those children will be safer, healthier or happier with state-appointed strangers than their own peculiar families.
The syndicated story in the Chicago Tribune this morning noted the FLDS children have never watched television, eat only natural, organic food, dress demurely and are "unfailingly polite". This we are assured, is evidence of horrific parenting and will be programmed out of them. Would you turn your children over to such people?

[BluesConnect]

Originally Posted by trailerguy

The Eldorado operation went off peaceably because of the restrained tactics and responsible behavior of the Texas authorities.

Texas has absolutely nothing to be ashamed of here, and several good reasons to be proud.

I'm just a little confused. First you, trailerguy, are congratulating the authorities on a job well done; next, you are accusing them of violating the Constitutional rights of the FLDS. Which is it?

It is my understanding that everything has been done in accordance with the law, as everyone has now been in court to "show cause," and with the judge issuing her rulings. What makes you think that doors were kicked in without warrants?

Additionally, as reported by the media, once in, the authorities found several underage pregnant females. I would hope you are in favor of their Consitutional rights being protected as they are rescued from "white slavery."

The authorities have acted with great restraint and respect for the rights of the FLDS. These people have been in El Dorado for two years, now. But this is the first time that law enforcement had enough justification to obtain search warrants, which they had in their possession when they went in. How many women and children suffered during this two year period while law enforcement was making sure everything was done in accordance with the law?

I, for one, resent your implication that you are the only one on this board who respects the Constitution. You don't know our background or experience. You don't know anything about us. Please get your facts straight before you start flaming!

[NOTAM]

i got a first hand account from one of the Texas Game Warden's who was activated to assist in the raid. from what he told me,it was done very professionally and i am very proud of him and all the other law enforcement agencies who were involved.

[Rathagos]

Okay... this will be my last post on this subject. Living in San Angelo, I know people first hand who have done physicals on the children, talked to the parents, and other issues. So, with that said, let me one more time slice through the weak arguments like a hot knife through butter...

Originally Posted by trailerguy

Am I the only one on this board who has any residual respect for the Constitution at all?

We don't have residual respect, we have total respect. To think otherwise is simply ludicrous. Again, you've made a point with no fact. I don't think I even need to address this point at all.

Originally Posted by trailerguy

Seeking Sarah Barlow was the whole purpose of the raid, it is now generally agreed there is no such person, but like the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, it doesn't seem to matter.

First, you obviously don't know the whole issue with Iraq, and this isn't the forum for it. Just suffice it to say that your statement on this point beautifully illustrates your ignorance of facts and dedication to the liberal press. I try to tell people, read what the "left" writes, then read what the "right" writes. The only thing that they both say is the only truth. Media is like statistics... you can pretty much grab any part you want and make it say what you want. But on the point of Barlow, you are probably 100% correct. My response is: does it matter? Through a LEGAL and BINDING warrant, law enforcement entered the premises and have found that some of the kids were abused. You can argue semantics all day long, when it comes to abuse cases, I would rather the cops have gone in on a inaccurate call, then to let those kids continue to abuse and potentially grow to think that it's socially okay to lay with a 14 or 15 year old when you're 30 or 40. Before you start the conspiracy theory side of this, let's let the legal courts do their job (per the Constitution).

Originally Posted by trailerguy

I don't have anything to hide from the police either, but if they come kicking in my door, they better damn well have a warrant and probable cause.

*sigh* Let's try this one more time. They did have a warrant.

Originally Posted by trailerguy

I do respect law enforcement people, that isn't the issue. The framers of our Constitution had experience with uncontrolled police power, that's why they wrote the Bill of Rights.

This is exactly what I was talking about with trying to take one small "statistic" and make it say what you want. If you're so familiar with the Constitution, you should remember the "Preamble" where it says ".. provide for the common defense.." Note that it says "common" defense, not "individual" defense. I think the need of those children that were abused constitutes a "common defense."

Originally Posted by trailerguy

Anyone who thinks constitutional rights just protect criminals needs to read more history. I won't argue the FLDS is a wacky church, but it's still a church. Brainwashed, weird or whatever, those people have rights.

So do the children. The difference is the adults KNOW they are breaking the law (and yes, it's already been proven that they participate in polygamy which is against the law), the children don't know. And it's easier to raise those kids in ignorance when secluded on a ranch with no TV or radio... wait.. .hmmm... which might... it "could" mean... they [the children] would know that what's happening is wrong.

Originally Posted by trailerguy

To take away all their children with no plan on how to care properly for them on the pretext that some of them may possibly have been abused is inexcusable.

Is it better to let them stay there and continually be abused by adults than to take them out of the immediate danger?

Originally Posted by trailerguy

I'm sure there are conscious foster parents out there somewhere. The people I know who had been under foster care all had horror stories to tell. I strongly doubt those children will be safer, healthier or happier with state-appointed strangers than their own peculiar families.

I don't doubt it. I wouldn't want to watch those children continue to go through the abuse that some of them have. And then be raised to believe that that type of behavior is accepted if not condoned. Get them out of there, educate them, then let them decide. Burying our collective societal heads in the sand and letting them live that way is not what this country (founded on the Constitution) is about.

Originally Posted by trailerguy

The syndicated story in the Chicago Tribune this morning noted the FLDS children have never watched television, eat only natural, organic food, dress demurely and are "unfailingly polite". This we are assured, is evidence of horrific parenting and will be programmed out of them. Would you turn your children over to such people?

I would turn them over to them before I'd let a 40 year old man think he can marry and have sex with my 14 year old daughter if that's what you're asking?? Maybe you'd prefer to send your daughter there to live with them for a while? Not me!

I'm done. I can't take this type of ill-prepared reasoning anymore. Sorry all! I'll see you in the other threads!

[Tesaje]

I have a question about the children found in the El Dorado FLDS cult. Reports are that there were over 400 obvious children found (many more underage teenagers swelled the count since the initial raid), of which only some 2 dozen were boys. Any normal population of that size would have roughly half of each sex. So where are all the boys?

Wickipedia says: "Lost Boys of Polygamy are young men who have been excommunicated or pressured to leave polygamous groups such as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS).[1] Most of the Lost Boys are between the ages of 13 and 21 when banished or pressured to leave.[2]"

Ok, so these sex-slaving criminals dispose of the pubescent and teenage boys. So where are the little boys under the age of 13? I don't hear much of any reports on this question but it has been forefront in my mind since the raid happened. But I hear no answers. What have these people done with them?



I also suspect the the inbreeding of this group is so extreme that the DNA testing will not reveal much except that the inbreeding is extreme. They really look like clones of each other.