National "Bread" of Texas (Pecos, Tahoka: organic, plantation, assess)

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Likwise, Texas sis! I agree totally with what you say, and feel the same way (big surprise, huh? LOL). Anyway, very little, if any, of my Texas experience -- nor anyone I know -- has/had a truely strong connection with the mythic West of Lonesome Dove and such. And even the small parts of it that did, had Southern roots. As opposed to, say, the "western" heritage of Kansas. In fact, lots of those old gunfights between the Texas cattle drovers and Kansas marshalls and townspeople were traceable to animosities dating to being on different sides during the "Civil War"! LOL

Hollywood had a LOT to do with it, I think; and as you say. But even there, the barren desert landscape not withstanding, classics like Red River brought out a bit of the Southern roots of the Texas cowboy tradition.

The other reason that, IMHO, the touting of the "western" as opposed to "Southern" heritage (noting again, they overlap considerably) is so much more touted by the Texas legislature and tourist industy? It goes to when Lyndon Johnson ran for president in 1964. During the time, the Civil Rights movement was going on, and the South was viewed negatively by most of the rest of the country (even if the same places couldn't solve their own very real problems). But be that as it may, LBJ (who had considerable influence in Texas) instructed his campaign workers to attempt play up the so-called "western" aspects of Texas as opposed to the Southern. And he took to calling himself a "Westerner."

But the telling thing to me is that later, in complete candidness, he wasn't, nor thought of himself as anything but what he really was. He (paraphrased, from the same memoirs, The Vantage Point) said something like: "While I wasn't a part of the 'old South' I was a part of Texas...and Texas is part of the South...in the sense it shares a common history and outlook which differs from the northeast, midwest, or Far West..."

Ok...sorry...I know once I get going on this subject, I go on FAR too long. And even violate my own promise to myself NOT to start this one up again! (sorry, Cathy!). It will never get settled anyway. A Texan can be also and either a Southerner, Southwesterner, or Westerner. It depends on attitude, experience, mind-set, and what one identifies with in the same...

LOL!! No need to apologize, y'all.....!

I guess I identify more with the western aspect of Texas because I DID grow up in WT....in ranching and oil/gas country.

I know that the state also has southern aspects, but dang, it was nothing like the rest of the confederacy in terms of culture, ways of life, et al, except in the very far, far eastern part of the state.

I had visited all parts of the state as a child OTHER than this far eastern part....during vacations, we always went west.

I didn't even visit East Texas at all until I was an adult and a senior at Texas Tech/Lubbock. The sole reason I did was that some members of my family had jobs in Jasper and Kirbyville.

The longest day of my life was when I finished class, jumped in my car, drove 225 miles home.....parked my car, jumped in my parents' car.....Daddy drove us another 530 miles to Kirbyville. I was worn out, so I slept in the back seat, while they took turns driving.

Of course, it was pitch black when we finally got there. They woke me up....I got out of the car, still half-asleep...dark, all these trees, the incredible humidity!!

I felt like I was in a foreign country, and I might as well have been. We stayed 2-3 days, and the feeling of being in another world never left me.

I was totally creeped out.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Cathy4017

I know that the state also has southern aspects, but dang, it was nothing like the rest of the confederacy in terms of culture, ways of life, et al, except in the very far, far eastern part of the state.

Cathy, I PROMISE (at least until another time) that I will shut up after replying to this one. LOL In fact, you might even end up agreeing with it!

Just a little note, that as to the comment Texas was not like the rest of the Confederacy? In many ways you are right. But most of that came about after the war. During the definite day in age, Texas was very much a Lower South cotton state and all out for secession! On the other hand, the states of the Upper South even refused to join until they had to choose! LOL

But main thing is, when you disassociate Texas in terms of, as you put it from "the rest of the Old Confederacy", such also implies that the other 10 ten states are themselves one totally monolithic cultural region in and of themselves. As it is, Virginia has very little in common with Mississippi, either then or now. Arkansas and South Carolina share almost nothing. If they do, what is it? And hell, Florida today is even more "odd man out" than Texas in terms of what constitutes the modern day South! LOL

Oh heck, Miss Cathy, I know we will always disagree about this whole thing. But so what? We are both on the same side of the Red River, aren't we? *smiles and hug*

[Cathy4017]

Oh heck, Miss Cathy, I know we will always disagree about this whole thing. But so what? We are both on the same side of the Red River, aren't we? *smiles and hug*

Hugs back atcha, Reb...LOL!!

We're on the same side, but I'm a wee bit farther west than you these days, hehehehe!

Alpine or Marfa might call me back home one of these days.....

[Watchful]

Originally Posted by atxcio

Hmm... first the "Texas Dish" list is missing TexMex, then the "Texas Drink" thread is missing margaritas, now the "Texas Bread" thread is missing tortillas...

hmmmmmm......

Yes - this is serious omission!

In the 60s I would say Mrs. Baird's white bread
In the 70s I would say Texas toast

Today - no doubt - tortillas. So I guess I am voting "other."

[blueskies49]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

The other reason that, IMHO, the touting of the "western" as opposed to "Southern" heritage (noting again, they overlap considerably) is so much more touted by the Texas legislature and tourist industy? It goes to when Lyndon Johnson ran for president in 1964. During the time, the Civil Rights movement was going on, and the South was viewed negatively by most of the rest of the country (even if the same places couldn't solve their own very real problems). But be that as it may, LBJ (who had considerable influence in Texas) instructed his campaign workers to attempt play up the so-called "western" aspects of Texas as opposed to the Southern. And he took to calling himself a "Westerner."

But the telling thing to me is that later, in complete candidness, he wasn't, nor thought of himself as anything but what he really was. He (paraphrased, from the same memoirs, The Vantage Point) said something like: "While I wasn't a part of the 'old South' I was a part of Texas...and Texas is part of the South...in the sense it shares a common history and outlook which differs from the northeast, midwest, or Far West..."

Interesting, TR! I did NOT know any of that about LBJ! So HE'S the rascal that's to blame! j/k

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by blueskies49

Interesting, TR! I did NOT know any of that about LBJ! So HE'S the rascal that's to blame! j/k

LOL Yeah sis, he had a lot to do with it! But in all fairness, it was mostly politics. He realized that to win the national election (during a time the South was viewed so negatively), he had to disassociate himself from his Texas/Southern heritage. As he put it in the memoirs when he could frankly lay it out: "I did not believe the nation would unite behind a Southern president, because for one thing, the "eastern" press would never permit it."

He went on to describe examples of how the northeastern mainstream media made fun of his Texas accent and mannerisms and such, and how he was firmly conviced that there existed, "a disdain for the South that seems to be woven into the fabric of northern experience..."

For that reason, a "strategy" was to play up the "western" aspects of Texas.

That all kinda blended in with the strong Hollywood influence too, as you noted earlier. I mean, if the rest of the country was so hooked on those "Western movies" (and I LOVE 'em too), then why wouldn't the tourist industry take advange of it? LOL

*grinning a bit* On that note, I almost laughed out loud when a couple of weeks ago we were at the General Store in Jefferson. Which is about as East Texas and ante-bellum Old South as one can get. Anyway, on the post card rack, there were some that OBVIOUSLY were just "generic". It said something like "Greetings From Jefferson, Texas". And the "artwork" on it was cowboy boots and cactus." The SAME exact type, other than where the "greetings from" was rotely stamped, that might be found in El Paso!

C'mon! LOL

[TexasHorseLady]

Hmmm. I always thought (growing up in East Texas) that Texas wasn't part of the South, though at one point in my romantic girlhood I would have loved for it to be. To me, Texas was more Western than Southern, even then, though I also realized, also, that it was more Texas than any of the possible alternatives. And at that point in time (1950's), I had never heard of LBJ, and he certainly wasn't running for Vice President or President then.

Politics had nothing to do with it - my thoughts about politics then were, "Well, if they want to go up to Washington and play games with each other, fine, let lthem have fun, as long as they just leave us alone." It was MUCH later that I realized that they wouldn't do that and how much their games impact our lives.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Hmmm. I always thought (growing up in East Texas) that Texas wasn't part of the South, though at one point in my romantic girlhood I would have loved for it to be. To me, Texas was more Western than Southern, even then, though I also realized, also, that it was more Texas than any of the possible alternatives. And at that point in time (1950's), I had never heard of LBJ, and he certainly wasn't running for Vice President or President then.

Politics had nothing to do with it - my thoughts about politics then were, "Well, if they want to go up to Washington and play games with each other, fine, let lthem have fun, as long as they just leave us alone." It was MUCH later that I realized that they wouldn't do that and how much their games impact our lives.

It's an interesting topic, THL! And, even though we will likely never agree as to the basic topic division, the very disagreement is a main reason why Texas is also "Just Texas"! A Whole Nother Country. I know we agree on that!

[SamKen]

A few years ago, me and my grand father went to our ranch to do some work. He recently hired a handy man to help out with some of the every day up keep of the place. Unknown to my g-pa, he's an excellent cook too. He made us some Pan De Campo and it was awesome. Healthy, its not...but tasty.

[catman]

East Texas was (and is) part of the Old South, but at the time of the Confederacy, East Texas was just about all there was. No way could it be said that West, let alone trans-Pecos Texas was or is part of the Old South (even though, with lots of irrigation, a bunch of cotton is grown around Tahoka in West Texas). But the plantation culture was limited to East Texas.