TX Concealed Handgun Permits (Lone Star: licenses, bill, work)

[TexasReb]

Thanks for the answers, y'all....I was just curious about it.

Muhnay, to answer your question, no, I have never had a problem at all when I would have a rifle or shotgun in a rack. And never talked to anybody who has.

[austinnetx]

You can always carry a folding knife as well. I ALWAYS have my knife.

I carry my pistol 98% of the time. I do not use a holster most of the time which makes it a lot easier to conceal the pistol on me. I just tuck it in my belt and put a shirt over it. Draws are a lot faster as well from AIWB.

I train for 20 min once a week - mainly draws combined with explosive movment. I use an airsoft pistol for target practice. I go to the range about once every six weeks.

I train about 8 hours a week in the gym with running and Olympic lifts.

[HKMark23]

USPSA or IPSC (where I'm from), or IDPA competitions are a great, and cheap, way to stay practiced. There are serious differences between competition and defensive pistol use which one must be alert to but the competitions do develop handling proficiency under stress, not a bad thing certainly.

[CptnRn]

I looked into this a while back and read the Texas statute regarding carrying a gun and found it interesting to learn that when you are traveling away from home, at least 1 overnight stay away from where you live, it is permissible to carry a gun with you in the car. You don't have to have a permit.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

I looked into this a while back and read the Texas statute regarding carrying a gun and found it interesting to learn that when you are traveling away from home, at least 1 overnight stay away from where you live, it is permissible to carry a gun with you in the car. You don't have to have a permit.

CptnRn, if I am not mistaken, that old "travelling" qualification was repealed a year or so back. It was deceptively simple in terminology, but extremely frustrating and complicated when it came to application and the law and one being subject to arrest and prosecution.

To try and summarize it (and I am not an attorney, so this is just my own interested layman study on it...and from what was said during my own CCL class), prior to 2006 (I think it was) there was an "exception" in the Texas Penal Code to the prohibition against unlawful carrying of weapons. One of them was when the "actor" was "travelling."

Thing was, travelling was never specifically defined. An "urban legend" (and those can be powerful...and also get somebody a lethal injection if they believe in them! LOL) emerged that to be "travelling" it had to be either/or or/ some combination of crossing two county lines, an overnight trip, or whatever.

But in reality? It amounted to that what the officer who stopped you thought as to whether or not you were "travelling (and many times they could be a pure p***k). Tell it to the judge, as they say. The judge (or jury) may decide different or back up the officer. It was a pure mess!

IMHO, where the origins of the Texas urban legend about "crossing one county and overnight" emerged -- as to be taken a gospel -- traces to when the traveller thingy was challenged to begin with.

The several rulings of "case law" which emerged "for or against" by the judge at hand offerered their own opinion. And none where consistent, really. There was one who said "overnight"...there was another who said "must cross a county line". That type thing. Over the years the two got blurred into a precedent that never existed, but became urban legend as one and the same ruling and justification.

It really boiled down to that whether or not one was "travelling" was solely subject to the discretion of the officer who made the arrest, the judge who ruled the case, and perhaps the jury who might later try it. In the whole interum, the poor bastard was out thousands of hours in time and perhaps the same in legal fees.

Along around somewhere (2005 maybe?) the Texas Legislature -- under public pressure - changed the "travelling" statute to be qualified as in that a person is "presumed" (operative term in this case) to be travelling" if they are away from home, not engaged in criminal activity, not a member of a gang, and the weapon is not in plain sight. It was part of a larger "Castle Doctine" bill.

The obstensible purpose of the new wording was that every law-abiding Texas citizen should have the right to carry a handgun in their car subject to certain restrictions.

At this point? Enter a few DA's from major urban cities in Texas where native Texas attitudes are no longer the rule. The most vocal was the DA from Harris County who said he intended to prosecute any otherwise law-abiding citizen arrested (and he wanted them arrested for sure) for having a handgun in their car.

As far as he was concerned (to read this guy's arrogant, yankee, logic) it went like just because one is PRESUMED to be travelling...it is still up to THEM (the arrested) to PROVE it. (What a blue-bellied, carpetbagging, jerk...).

Ok...in response to natural disgust over such arrogance, FINALLY, the Texas Legislature eliminated the refererence to travelling completely. It now stands that a citizen is guilty of unlawful carrying of a handgun in their vehicle ONLY if it is in plain sight, they are a member of a known gang, engaged in criminal activity beyond that of a Class 3 Misdemenor (traffic offenses and such), and not legally permitted to purchase and own a handgun.

In other words, you can have a pistol in your car regardless of if you are only going to the nearest 7-11 Store if you meet (or don't meet! LOL) the above conditions. No longer do you have to prove you are travelling! Which is as it should be far as I am concerned....

Important thing to remember though, is that UNLESS you have a concealed handgun permit, then it cannot be on your actual person....

[CptnRn]

It does look like the interpretation of the laws has been problematic. This website discusses the history of the concealed carry laws in TX. TCHA: CHL History

79th Legislature, 2005

A number of pro-CHL bills passed the 79th Legislature. They extended renewal licenses from four years to five, eased the requirements for states whose licenses we recognize, allowed military personnel to get a CHL at 18, cut the new license fee for active military and the renewal fee for seniors in half, allowed persons from any state to qualify for a Texas out-of-state CHL, allowed payment of CHL fees by personal check, and eased eligibility requirements for a person with an old deferred adjudication.
The most significant legislation attempted to change the definition of “travelling” to allow unlicensed carry in a personal vehicle. However, this law proved to be controversial, with several district attorneys claiming that it failed to actually accomplish its aim.

Bills insuring licensee privacy and allowing concealed carry on LCRA property failed to pass, as did a bill prohibiting concealed carry in school parking lots and an “assault weapons” ban. Also failing was the first attempt at restricting employer gun bans in parking lots.

80th Legislature, 2007

In 2007 the 80th Legislature waived the license fee for active and newly-discharged military and cut the fee for all veterans in half. A bill insuring privacy for licensees by eliminating the procedure for anyone to find out whether a person is licensed passed.
The Legislature revisited car carry, restoring the “travelling” rule to its former state and including a private auto as “premises under the control,” solving the problem. A Castle Doctrine bill removed the retreat requirement and limited civil liability. Other bills passed that make the renewal class valid for ten years, finally allows concealed carry on LCRA property, and prohibits seizing firearms during a disaster. A bill that would have prohibited carrying in school parking lots passed, but was amended so it just prohibited exhibition of firearms. An employer parking lot bill also failed, as did one that would have expanded the no-guns area of an airport.

This document from the Texas Dept. of Public Safety describes the 2007 legislative actions:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/LegisChangesCHLStatute07.pdf (broken link)

2007 AMENDMENTS TO
CONCEALED HANDGUN STATUTE
AND
RELATED STATUTES

H.B. 1815 Traveling & Unlicensed Carry
• Allows the unlicensed carrying of a concealed handgun inside or directly en route to the person's motor vehicle

Amends Section 46.02, Penal Code to add Subsection (a-1) and (a-2):
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife or club if the person is not: (1) on the person’s own premises or premises under the person’s control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person’s control.

(a-2) For purposes of this section, “premises” includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, “recreational vehicle” means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

Amends Section 46.15(b): In pertinent part:
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(2) is traveling:
(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor’s residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity....

Repeals Section 46.15(h), Penal Code (defining 'recreational vehicle' as a residence) and Section 46.15(i) (the "traveling presumption").

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

It does look like the interpretation of the laws has been problematic. This website discusses the history of the concealed carry laws in TX. TCHA: CHL History

This document from the Texas Dept. of Public Safety describes the 2007 legislative actions:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/LegisChangesCHLStatute07.pdf (broken link)

Thanks for the info, Cptn Ron!

To follow up, here is the specific section of the Penal Code as reads today concerning hanguns in private vehicles which are not otherwise considered one's premises (i.e. recreational vehicles, etc).

As was noted, the "travelling" qualification was eliminated entirely. It now reads:

***********************

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.

(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person ’s control at any time in which:

(1) The handgun is in plain view; or
(2) The person is:

(A) Engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;

(B) Prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or

(C) A member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.

*************

It appears now -- I don't know it has been tested in court yet -- that unless one in violation of the prohibitions/qualifications mentioned above, then it is permissible to keep a hangun in one's car, even if going to the local grocery store.

[catman]

It is permissible. You simply have to keep it out of sight.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by catman

It is permissible. You simply have to keep it out of sight.

Right! Along with the other stipulations mentioned. Those are important to keep in mind as well...

[TexasRedneck]

Okay....I know this is an old thread, but rather than start a new one dealing w/CHL licenses:

Thanks to the hard work of the folks at Lone Star Citizens Defense League http://www.lonestarcdl.org/ - this bill is being introduced in the Texas State House:

Texas Legislature Online - 82(R) History for HB 2756

Contact YOUR state Rep/Senator, and push them to support it!