How far west into Texas does the southern accent extend? (Houston: suburbs, areas)

[TexasHorseLady]

Hey, if you want to go that far, Southern American English is nothing more than English as spoken in various counties in England/Scotland/Ireland, from which the Southerners came (and, indeed, linguistically some of the pronunciations can be traced back to specific counties). So the accents in the South aren't Southern, but English. This I learned not through linguistics directly (though I did study it a bit in college), but through my genealogical research. Sometimes those accents can be a clue, when you hit a brick wall in your research, as to where you should be looking to take up the scent again and perhaps bring it forward to the connection rather than working backwards.

The second paragraph wasn't intended to say (though I woke up this morning realizing that it could be taken as saying) that, you, specifically, defined Texas accents as Southern because you started with that premise otherwise, but that many people, including scientists, start with a premise and that premise determines what they see. (This is why peer review, while useful, is also problemmatical, because your peers will often share your biases and thus literally will not be able to see the bias in the study in question.) But it was badly worded, I acknowledge.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Hey, if you want to go that far, Southern American English is nothing more than English as spoken in various counties in England/Scotland/Ireland, from which the Southerners came (and, indeed, linguistically some of the pronunciations can be traced back to specific counties). So the accents in the South aren't Southern, but English. This I learned not through linguistics directly (though I did study it a bit in college), but through my genealogical research. Sometimes those accents can be a clue, when you hit a brick wall in your research, as to where you should be looking to take up the scent again and perhaps bring it forward to the connection rather than working backwards.

The second paragraph wasn't intended to say (though I woke up this morning realizing that it could be taken as saying) that, you, specifically, defined Texas accents as Southern because you started with that premise otherwise, but that many people, including scientists, start with a premise and that premise determines what they see. (This is why peer review, while useful, is also problemmatical, because your peers will often share your biases and thus literally will not be able to see the bias in the study in question.) But it was badly worded, I acknowledge.

Thank you for this clarification at the end! I appreciate that!

As to the first part of what you say, wellll, sure, Southern American English can trace back to the old countries. We can agree on that. Just as can all others spoken in the United States in other regions or sub-regions.

But like with any other characteristic which bonds a state to a region at large, it has to start somewhere! LOL

[TexasHorseLady]

I still hold that Texas is its own region, due not only to size, but the confluence of influences that made it up.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

>>>>
No one culture gets to be "top dog" there, I don't think
<<<<

Oh, I don't think it's about a culture being Top Dog. I think it is about what is really true/reality of the culture of Texas at large.

My perception of Texas dialect, with the exception of the extreme latter southern part of Texas which has predominantly Mexican culture (also El Paso), is that it is clearly southern (again, this is not the southern of the "eastern" [read Deep South] but a "western" south type of speech.)

The Texas dialect from Fort Worth all the way up to Witchita Falls, for instance, is very similar to what I grew up speaking in central Oklahoma. I've lived on the east and west coast and I've been accused of being from the from the Deep South (Alabama specifically, which I was not necessarily excited about). My point is, that people from the East/West/Midwest definitely hear an accent that they perceive as southern. You and I know it is not anywhere near as thick as the drawl from someone from the pines in Georgia. However, the natives from the south-central states (NOT the transplants...LOL) definitely speak a derivative of southern speech and this speech is by far the most common dialect in Texas....JMHO from my experience of traveling around this great state.

Thanks for this post, buddy! You pretty much summed up what I have been trying to say, but in less words, and more consise ones! Good job! LOL I owe ya a catfish dinner for that one! Maybe we can meet at Bill's over near Waurika sometime! LOL

Anyway, you sum it up very accurately and well. Which is that, for the most part, Texas speech (like that in a goodly part of Oklahoma, especially which borders Texas and Arkansas) has its own brand of uniqueness, but it is still overall a part of the broader Southern American English classification!

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

I still hold that Texas is its own region, due not only to size, but the confluence of influences that made it up.

And we both agree with that general sentiment! Texas being Texas, that is. Far and few between are many true Texans who will not concur! A-Men!

Where our difference comes into play is, I think, over that, regardless of what we might want, states DO have to be placed into a region at large for certain purposes and for very valid reasons.

Thus, I maintain that, when done so, Texas is essentially part of the South. A unique and atypical part? Damn right and for sure! But when all things are considered, it is much more historically and culturally tied to the southeastern states than with any other U.S. region. I would put most of it -- as did Raymond Gastil in his book "Cultural Regions of the United States" -- it in a distinct sub-region of the Greater South labeled the "Western South" (which also included goodly parts of Oklahoma).

In a nutshell, my position is that the Southern influence on Texas history and culture was/is the clearly dominating one. Language a major facet, in fact. Yours seems to be that the other influences were totally equal in shaping the state's destiny, and that none emerged pre-eminent. But, rather that Texas was some sort of melting pot in the mold of California where, say, the German influence had just as much impact as that which emerged from the Anglo/black Southerners who overwhelmingly settled the state.

And that is fine if you really believe/think that way! I am not disrespecting your postition, and certainly not denigrating the other cultures. I am just strongly disagreeing and stating historical facts as I see and have researched them. As well as, yeah, my own experiences and observations.

BUT...regardless. God Bless Texas!

[Pipeweld]

To quote Randy Owens ' I'll speak my southern english as natural as I please'

Pipeweld

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Pipeweld

To quote Randy Owens ' I'll speak my southern english as natural as I please'

Pipeweld

*High Fives* my friend! Mine (Texas variety) might be a bit different from what he speaks, but I'll sure support the sentiment!

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Thanks for this post, buddy! You pretty much summed up what I have been trying to say, but in less words, and more consise ones! Good job! LOL I owe ya a catfish dinner for that one! Maybe we can meet at Bill's over near Waurika sometime! LOL

Anyway, you sum it up very accurately and well. Which is that, for the most part, Texas speech (like that in a goodly part of Oklahoma, especially which borders Texas and Arkansas) has its own brand of uniqueness, but it is still overall a part of the broader Southern American English classification!

Right on my friend!

I was back up here just south of OK City to see my folks this morning and we went to the local Southern Baptist church.

Given some of the recent discussions on this board and others I tried to listen intently to how folks were talking.....there was an awful lot of twangin' goin on....and I like it!

My kinda people....just like my fellow Texans!

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

Right on my friend!

I was back up here just south of OK City to see my folks this morning and we went to the local Southern Baptist church.

Given some of the recent discussions on this board and others I tried to listen intently to how folks were talking.....there was an awful lot of twangin' goin on....and I like it!

My kinda people....just like my fellow Texans!

LOL I couldn't help but be struck a bit by that line of yours "an awful lot of twangin' goin' on"

Sounds like a great title or at least a line in a country music song!

[AdamTx]

Great topic, I am a genuine Texan, and live in Mckinney, Tx. and have a non descript accent but I have worked on that for a long time. There is no doubt, albeit slight, a difference between East Texas twang which is a tad faster and a West Texas drawal which is somewhat slower. Far South (Rio valley) and Far West Texas (El Paso metro) has such a latino influence that even the non latino people seem to have a far less distinct typical Texas twang due to the overall mixing that has occurred.