Houston vs. Dallas --- SMACKDOWN! (San Antonio, Austin: allergy, incomes, residency)

[C2H (ComingtoHouston)]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

The first time I visited Houston my first impression upon entering the city at night was WOW am I in Los Angeles?

Houston may fall short of DFW population wise but i doubt that a visitor who knows nothing about the populations of DFW and Houston will really be able to tell the difference. I'm not ignoring that the city of Dallas has made some great urban developments in its cental city core, but when i'm in the rest of the metroplex, the boundaries are very distinct. I can always tell when i'm in Irving/Las Colinas, Grand Prarie, or Arlington. It actually feels like i've left Dallas. Fort Worth is at least a half hour away from Dallas. DFW is no Mineannapolis/St Paul where the two cities actually spill over in to eachother. Between Dallas/Fort Worth, you will see large stretches of nature, especially around the Trinity River, trees galore.

Houston on the other hand has city limits that are larger than Dallas (city) and Fort Worth (city) combined, and it has a city center (everything inside loop 610). Inside the loop you get to see Texas Medical Center, Museum District, Reliant Park, Downtown/Midtown (where downtown has 2 stadiums), Greenway Plaza, and i'll even count Uptown because it barely sits outside of loop 610. It actually feels like a Dallas Fort Worth wrapped up into one. On top of that, the beach is not that far of a drive away.

Point is, DFW may have a larger population due to ft.worth but it lacks the unity and connectivity the Houston area has. Dallas/Ft. Worth has everything Houston has but everything is spread out in different parts of the metro. You can see just as much driving inside the 610 loop as you see in the entire metroplex. DFWs population count isn't that big of a deal, especially when it doesn't have the ethnic diversity to add to the mix to make it more interesting.

[Dangerfield]

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

but when i'm in the rest of the metroplex, the boundaries are very distinct. I can always tell when i'm in Irving/Las Colinas, Grand Prarie, or Arlington. It actually feels like i've left Dallas. Fort Worth is at least a half hour away from Dallas.

I consider this a benefit. Instead of driving around one big bland city, you have different municipalities each with their own individual development style and vibe.

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

DFW is no Mineannapolis/St Paul where the two cities actually spill over in to eachother.

You do realize M/SP are 10 miles apart, D/FW are 31 miles. Right?

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

Between Dallas/Fort Worth, you will see large stretches of nature, especially around the Trinity River, trees galore.

Ever been to DC/Baltimore? They are only 38 miles apart. The CMSA population is larger than D/FW's yet all three major connectors, U.S. 29, I-95 and I-395 have large swaths of green space where you would never think you were between two of the nation's largest cities.

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

Houston on the other hand has city limits that are larger than Dallas (city) and Fort Worth (city) combined, and it has a city center (everything inside loop 610). Inside the loop you get to see Texas Medical Center, Museum District, Reliant Park, Downtown/Midtown (where downtown has 2 stadiums), Greenway Plaza, and i'll even count Uptown because it barely sits outside of loop 610. It actually feels like a Dallas Fort Worth wrapped up into one.

Dallas has most everything inside 635 that Houston has inside 610, excluding the football and baseball stadiums.

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

On top of that, the beach is not that far of a drive away.

This didn't serve Houston too well in 2008.

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

Point is, DFW may have a larger population due to ft.worth but it lacks the unity and connectivity the Houston area has. Dallas/Ft. Worth has everything Houston has but everything is spread out in different parts of the metro. You can see just as much driving inside the 610 loop as you see in the entire metroplex. DFWs population count isn't that big of a deal, especially when it doesn't have the ethnic diversity to add to the mix to make it more interesting.

Dallas and Ft Worth are still separte MSA's with multiple cities and towns inbeween, each with varying zoning laws and regulations; so of course the Metroplex doesn't feel like one city like Houston.

Once again, both Dallas and Ft Worth have most everything within the Interstate loops of each citiy also, excluding the FB and BB stadiums.

The ethnic composition of Dallas and Houston are very similar. I doubt the casual visitor could tell the difference.

[C2H (ComingtoHouston)]

Originally Posted by Dangerfield

Dallas has most everything inside 635 that Houston has inside 610, excluding the football and baseball stadiums.

Nice try but Dallas only has one basketball stadium which is AA center. I'm not sure where the baseball stadium is, but i know its not downtown. TX stadium is in Irving and soon to be relocated further from Dallas to Arlington.

[Dangerfield]

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

Nice try but Dallas only has one basketball stadium which is AA center. I'm not sure where the baseball stadium is, but i know its not downtown. TX stadium is in Irving and soon to be relocated further from Dallas to Arlington.

Reread my response. I said excluding football and baseball stadiums.

Really, Cowboys stadium is in Arlington? (sarcasm)

BTW, the baseball stadium is called the Rangers Ballpark in Arlington.

[C2H (ComingtoHouston)]

Originally Posted by Dangerfield

Reread my response. I said excluding football and baseball stadiums.

Really, Cowboys stadium is in Arlington? (sarcasm)

BTW, the baseball stadium is called the Rangers Ballpark in Arlington.

You did say excluding the stadiums, my bad...

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by Dangerfield

The ethnic composition of Dallas and Houston are very similar. I doubt the casual visitor could tell the difference.

Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but Houston has Dallas beat by a LONG shot with its ethnic diversity. Dallas' diversity resides in its many outlying suburbs, not the actual city itself which is predominately White, Black, & Hispanic. A more fair comparison would be metro areas in which case Houston still comes out ahead even with D/FW having 700,000 more in population.

Coastal cites have historically been a lot more diverse than their inland counter parts. A lot of the first settlers in Texas arrived by way of Galveston. In modern Houston they arrive via Bush Intercontinental from every corner of the globe especially places like China, Vietnam, India, Pakistan, & Africa.

Houston would not have the long list of foreign consulates it does if it was not a cosmopolitan city.

[Dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but Houston has Dallas beat by a LONG shot with its ethnic diversity. Dallas' diversity resides in its many outlying suburbs, not the actual city itself which is predominately White, Black, & Hispanic. A more fair comparison would be metro areas in which case Houston still comes out ahead even with D/FW having 700,000 more in population.

Coastal cites have historically been a lot more diverse than their inland counter parts. A lot of the first settlers in Texas arrived by way of Galveston. In modern Houston they arrive via Bush Intercontinental from every corner of the globe especially places like China, Vietnam, India, Pakistan, & Africa.

Houston would not have the long list of foreign consulates it does if it was not a cosmopolitan city.

Long shot, really? You also have to factor in Houston city is almost double the size of Dallas city in land area, which would mean it encompasses many more areas of ethnically diverse neighborhoods.

Houston has a longer list of consulates for one reason only. Oil port city.

Houston ethnic makeup:
The racial makeup of the city was 49.27 percent White, 25.31 percent Black, 5.31 percent Asian, 0.44 percent American Indian, 0.06 percent Pacific Islander, 16.46 percent from some other race, and 3.15 percent from two or more races. Persons of Hispanic origin—who may be of any race—accounted for 37 percent of the population while non-Hispanic whites made up 30.8 percent.

Dallas ethnic makeup:
The racial makeup of Dallas was 56.9% White (30.5% non-Hispanic-White), 23.8% Black, 2.7% Asian, 0.9% Native American, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 16.9% from other races, and 1.2% from two or more races. 42.4% of the population was Hispanic or Latino of any race.

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by Dangerfield

Long shot, really? You also have to factor in Houston city is almost double the size of Dallas city in land area, which would mean it encompasses many more areas of ethnically diverse neighborhoods.

All of Houston's ethnic neighborhoods are within the boundaries of its second loop, Beltway 8 which covers roughly the same square mileage as from I-20 in South Dallas to GBTP in Far Noth Dallas if you were to compare the two. That said, Houston has more established ethnic areas than Dallas. The last time I checked Koreans didn't live in Dallas' Korean District if you can even call it that.

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by Dangerfield

Houston has a longer list of consulates for one reason only. Oil port city.

Oil has very little to do with Houston's diversity.

Taken per wiki:

"Houston is a diverse and international city, in part because of its many academic institutions and strong industries. Over 90 languages are spoken in the city"

"Houston is a multicultural city with a large and growing international community. The metropolitan area is home to an estimated 1.1 million (21.4 percent) residents who were born outside the United States, with nearly two-thirds of the area's foreign-born population from south of the United States–Mexico border. Additionally, more than one in five foreign-born residents are from Asia. The city is home to the nation’s third largest concentration of consular offices, representing 86 countries."

[metroplex2003]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

All of Houston's ethnic neighborhoods are within the boundaries of its second loop, Beltway 8 which covers roughly the same square mileage as from I-20 in South Dallas to GBTP in Far Noth Dallas if you were to compare the two. That said, Houston has more established ethnic areas than Dallas. The last time I checked Koreans didn't live in Dallas' Korean District if you can even call it that.

I will state being very familiar with Asians and Asian Americans; that the DFW area does have more Koreans than Houston. That's census fact.

Now as for patterns of where Asians generally live; lots of asians as a whole prefer suburban living. If you look at LA...the constant intra metro area migration has been East and Southward as a whole. That's why we saw the birth of San Gabriel, and then a decade later the development of Roland Heights. Washington DC's CHinatown is no longer a place for the CHinese...that's moved up to Maryland as more Chinese flocked the city and went to the burbs. This makes sense given the Economics of Asians in general.

We've seen in in DFW... the migration northward towards Plano. Lewisville, Carrollton, and now Allen. So it makes sense that they are less found within the Dallas city limits. But the whole city limits thing as I have said in the past is meaningless. The reason this debate exists is b/c of DFW's population vs. Houston's. We never compare San Antonio to Houston, do we? So it's not so important that we continue to draw these boundaries. B/c the real debate is DFW vs. Houston. The city proper boundaries are just boundaries....otherwise, like I have said in previous posts...then we talk San Antonio vs. Houston or Atlanta vs. Omaha, NE if we want to just discuss city proper.

In Chicago...it's been westward...away from their traditional chinatown district to more suburban areas such as Naperville.

It's been a cultural trend now for decades.

Having said all that, DFW offers several distinct asian retail areas:

Garland's Walnut St. (1-2 miles of predominantly Vietnamese with some Korean/Chinese mix).

Main/Beltline: The original "Chinatown" area of DFW. It's an "L shaped district" that starts from Polk going east on US 75 then going north on Main/Beltline.

Plano has two smaller shopping districts: Asian World Market Mall (Legacy and US 75), and Mei Hua. Also with 36,000 chinese people living within a 5 mile radius of these two areas (Source Dallas Morning News in conjunction with US Census Bureau), I would venture to say that's a fairly decent neighborhood of chinese people.

Then we proceed to the Korean areas: Old Denton Tap and GWB: This has the national chain Super H Mart and the state's first California chain:Yogurtland...which has premium frozen yogurt (Taro flavor, red bean, mochi cubes)> The traditional Korean Town is at I-35 and Royal. And there is a smaller Korean strip in South Irving off Beltline which has a Komart.

Other notable areas are in ARlington and Pioneer Expressway and 360: 1-2 mile strip of Vietnamese/Chinese mix. Haltom City has more Thai/Laos mix at Beach street.

Las Colinas is known as "Little India" among an ever growing Indian community here due to our large IT industry in DFW. Located 1-3 mile strip from 183 heading North on MacArthur ending in Coppell.
And thousands of Indians now live in Irving. Go to Wal Mart on Sunday night in Las Colinas....if you are caucasian, you will definitely be the minority as it's mainly 80% Indian at that time of the week.

So as you can see, even though our asian groups may not be located physically within the Dallas city limits, there are plenty of opportunities for people from South Asia as well as Southeast and Northern Asia and for people of non asian descent to experience Asian diversity in this area.