Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla
Hence the quotation marks around mere.  |
Actually the quote I was using was for MSA's, not city proper.
Secondly, the comparison is DFW area vs. Houston area as I've said in my previous post...so not sure if it wasnt made clear...but DFW area vs. Houston area.
B/c again I have stressed the importance of thinking regionally when thinking a/b US cities. When people to refer to "dallas"...it's b/c Dallas is the principle city...just like "St. Louis" or "Atlanta" is the principle city of their respective MSA...there would be no greater Atlanta without Atlanta, despite Atlanta only making up <20% of the MSA population., Nobody thinks a/b St. Paul without Minneapolis, the larger principle city. Most people refer to their suburb when talking among locals
But again, I think I"ve made it clear over and over and over again that I am a regional thinker and thus comparing DFW area to Houston area...this is the source of my stats
...so in terms of density, those are referring to the MSA stats...
We've established the principle city stats awhile ago I believe....there is no debate a/b the urban core in its current state today with regards to Dallas vs. Houston...the source of the debate stems from the fact that the DFW area vs. Houston area are going head to head in many numbers. And the source of the debate stems from whether or not Dallas' urban core in terms of density is going to catch Houston in the future....but that's been debated over and over too.
As for the accusations...I was not referring to you MPOPE...you've been fairly objective a/b DFW being a major player or you too Guerrila
FYI, there are more than just two pro houstonians on this forum
I just dont like to point people out specifically b/c I try to keep this as non personal as possible...more a/b a debate rather than making it personal...so please do not take offense...this will likely be the last time I personally name someone in a post for awhile.
But I do stand by my previous posts: I think the DFW area is a major economic engine for Texas, it goes up well as a region against the Houston region, and it goes up well against many of the other regions as well including the Bay Area (which locals there call it East bay or west bay if they live there....examples: "I live live in the East Bay, in the Dublin area"
Most people think regionally b/c their principle city tends to be relatively small in America. Most "St. Louisans" are not living in St. Louis, which is a rough city crime wise. But many in the area will say to outsiders that they are from "St. Louis". Most people from Dublin say the "Bay Area", or San Francisco area. San Fran only accounts for 700-800,000 (off the top of my head) of the 4+ million in the MSA and 8 million in the CMSA. No one every doubts SF's significance to the United States. I think the problem stems from the fact that Houston has a relatively large principle city (4th largest) and makes up 40% of the population of the Houston MSA. That's relatively huge. NYC only has 8 million or so out of the 21 milllion. LA 4 million out of 18 million, most principle cities tend to be a much smaller percentage of the overall region, yet people will refer to their principle city when not among locals (now please dont point out every exception to the rule...b/c of course you can find someone that will be that way). So there is a confusion, b/c some on the forum is comparing Houston proper vs. Dallas proper or DFW area, not sure? and some are comparing Houston area to DFW area. Let's be clear here, I'm a regional thinker, so DFW area vs. Houston area.
But to make things clear, if I do say Dallas...it refers regionally unless otherwise specified, but I think I"ve done a relatively good job saying DFW unless we talk a/b high rise construction in Dallas' downtown in particular, which is also an exciting topic b/c there is plenty of documentation supporting the growth of numerous high rises downtown that anyone can look up at the goverment websites and NCTCOG websites. Dallas only makes up 1/6th of the MSA population, but as a region, we are an economic powerhouse, and the region would not exist if it werent for the principle city and the 2ndary smaller principle city of Ft. Worth, which would be the equivalence of Kansas City, KS, or St. Paul Minnesota, or Tacoma, WA, do I need to continue to list?
FYI, businesses do consider the MSA stat very important when choosing for location and offices. They have too...though the move by Louisville was smart from marketing standpoint, businesses will look at the overall region as well when factoring in an office or manuf plant location. The workforce is important, the amt of education in the workforce is important. DFW has 6+ million people....There's a reason why DFW continues to attract businesses over San Antonio, or Atlanta over Louisville, Kentucky.
The US govt. recognizes the importance of regional area b/c it gives a better overall picture in many cases. Louisville, Kentucky as I've used multiple times vs. Atlanta is a great example, b/c the whole story a/b Louisville is well documented. I dont think anyone on this forum will say that Louisville, despite being bigger, is just as much of a major player as Atlanta.
I know there is the story of Dallas proper vs. Houston proper, and some things can be compared, but other variables cannot. This debate probably arises out of the native Texans that saw Dallas and Houston when they didnt have much surrounding population. But rest assured, that hasnt been my debate..it's always been about DFW vs. Houston areas. I cannot argue land area in Houston proper vs. Dallas proper nor population. I will not argue that Houston proper is more or less dense than Dallas proper b/c It's obvious with its land area and it's urban core being within the inner loop that it would be. But I will argue that Houston Area and Dallas area (sorry DFW area) is roughly the same in density with Houston besting DFW by 5/sq mile, whereas Chicago area has 1000 /sq mile more people. I know Dallas proper would never catch Houston proper in population, if it does, it needs to get vertical quickly...not going to happen. Whoever says that is in complete and utter disbelief. BUt I will say that regionally, I think comparisons can be made and I am confident in the DFW region stacking up well against the other great metros of the US including Houston and Atlanta.
Overall, I like the DFW area better, others like Houston area better. There are certain things that I like out of city that I feel DFW bests Houston area on. But it all boils down to preferences...the root of microeconomics. Everyone has their preferences.
I"m not a native of either city....but I've been to both (Houston several times too)...and I've drawn that conclusion overall for reasons I've listed in the way past
So, since many people refer to their principle city in "area discussions", I dont think it's a complete crime to say that..though I think relatively I've used the phrase " DFW area" more...but occasionally I'll use Dallas too. But I think my previous posts would have led people to conclude that I've been talking regionally for months I've participated in this forum. When talking to my northern neighbors up in IL, MO, IA, it's so much easier just to say Dallas...much like Chicago people just say CHicago to outsiders...even though they maybe from Naperville or Shaumburg. But if it really upsets all of you, then I'll just say DFW area from now on...believe me, it's no big deal in the grand scheme of things.
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