Y'all or You guys?

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by blueskies49

TR, that would be my daughter, for sure!! She grew up in Arlington and Grand Prairie saying "y'all" her whole life. Never once heard her say "you guys" (she is now 29 years old) up until about 3 years ago when she was pregnant with her first child. It began to pop out here and there. One day I was curious and asked her where she picked it up from. She said she didn't know? Well, now it's not just "here and there", it's more often than not!! Nowadays her "y'alls" are few and far between!

LOL But maybe when they retire and "come home" for good, the y'all will re-establish itself, reckon?

By the way, Miss Blue *HUGS*. Good to have you back amongst us!

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by KerryB

I agree with most of this. I think texas is more "southern affiliated" than full on southern. Like I said, there are just too many other influences & I think its got its own thing going.

I appreciate this post.

In turn, I too think we generally agree on the broad conclusion as to Texas "Southern status" even if we might use different adjectives -- of minor consequence -- to describe it (i.e. "essentially" as opposed to "affiliated").

Backing up a bit, I initially planned to dispute both of your major points (when I had a chance! LOL). That is "y'all" not being an indicator of "Southerness" and that being proud of of being Southern, or Southern roots, was not applicable to Texans.

Taking the last one first, your later qualification (as per your latest post quoted) seems to indicate we might have had a mutual misunderstanding of meaning and intent. As an aside, such is usually the "mutual" basis for sitting down together and having a beer or several! LOL

But anyway...the only thing I am going to say with this one (because I have promised myself not to re-open this can of worms anymore than necessary! LOL) is that while the regional affiliation of Texas itself might be debatable (and it is) to say that Texans, as individuals, cannot be proud of being Southerners (and their ante-bellum Southern roots and ancestry and history), is a whole different critter.

Here is an example of the other side, which I think might fit:

My lady friend is from what she considers to be the "true West." (Colorado). She is every bit as adamant that Texas is not part of it (the West) as certain "Deep South" purists (many of them distant kin and friends) reject it as truly Southern (which again, it isn't if by "truly" one means undiluted!). She considers Texas "Southern" and said she noticed it from the very first time she visited Texas. There was just a whole different "feeling". Climate was different, speech and general attitudes were...etc. She is a Navy veteran and has been stationed in many places over the years, and said the found Texas and Texans much more like Mississippi than Wyoming or California or anywhere else in the West. Even the "rodeo's" and "cowboy hats" and "western dress" in Texas just didn't have the same "something" as in what she calls the modern-day West.

BUT..she is equally and freely acknowledging that individual Texans[/i] have every right to be proud of their "Western" heritage. And further, that those Texans who do, in her experience, have the credentials to do so. But equally importantly, acknowleges she is no expert in the whole matter (which I make a point to affirm! LOL), it is all just her opinion..

There are many Texans on here -- I am one of them -- who simply cannot relate to that "western" aspect of Texas. My upbringing and family lines and all reared and associated is strongly Southern in nature. Nothing personal intended by any means, but for someone to tell me I am not a Southerner is not only wrong...it is insulting. My family tree is Confederate bled and a livin' made around cotton and a social life which involved the extended family and reunions and many other things deeply and emotionally Southern in origin.

On the other hand? There are many of those for whom the above is generations or distance removed from what they consider "the South"...and feel more of the "western" aspect.

I realize this might be sounding like -- after this speel -- that I am violating my own promise to NOT start this topic up again. But it really does -- I think -- tie into the main point of that while the larger connection of Texas to any given region (and we all agree it is first and foremost, TEXAS! ), can be argued, there are no grounds (historically nor culturally) to question what the Texan feels his/herself to be part of, region wise. Whether is be South, West, Southwest, Western South, or any combination thereof...

Good gawd...did I run on or what? I think I did, so now gotta make a seperate one for the second issue at hand! Before doing so though, I want to once again say I think we basically agree on a lot of this, and your observations confirm it.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by KerryB

Well, just an FYI for everyone. Just because you say "Y'all" or have an accent doesnt mean you're a southerner. EVERYONE says "Y'all", even some New Yorkers I've ran into. It's actually pretty common.

With all due and deserved respect, here is where I really take issue with you, Kerry. That is, that the common use of "y'all" or "you-all" among residents of a given locale has no strong "Southern connection."

There was a couple years dialect study done at Harvard which sorta "mapped out" where certain pronunciations and idiom was used. Here is the "map" as to the question of:

Question 50. What word(s) do you use to address a group of two or more people?

Dialect Survey Results

Note that in "overall results" map, the use of y'all/you-all was definitely colored (red and yellow) in a way which outlined what can fairly be considered Southern or Southern border states.

But really, what I found most interesting is that, going by individual state data (question 50), the use of y'all and you all is not at all "common" outside of the South or border South. In fact, it drops off dramatically out of the same.

For instance, in Texas the combined use of y'all and you all approaches 90%, whereas in New Mexico is drops to about 20 (and that one is big compared to what follows). Oklahoma in just "y'all" alone is 46% while Kansas is 9. Kentucky is 40 percent "y'all"-- (and 39 percent "you-all",) but IL, ID, OH, are less than 10%. Same with West Virginia and Virginia as compared to Pennsylvania or New York or New Jersey.

Here is the link to compare stats on question 50 by individual state. What word(s) do you use to address a group of two or more people?

Dialect Survey Results

The contrasts are just too great to be anything other that, in SOME form or fashion, such is an indice of "Southerness"

At the same time though, I suppose and begrudge that it counts equally in the scheme of things that Texas BBQ is beef as opposed to pork! Which of course would mean that we AIN'T quite the same! LOL

Texas is Texas and God Bless!

I need a beer! I think you might be a man who would enjoy the same.

[Bobilee]

TR. That was an interesting Survey. I was amused that most West Virginians chose "other" in their choices for what they called their grandfathers. I noticed they didn't include the term "pawpaw", which is what I called my one grandfather. The other one I called "dad". I recently read an essay on Scotch-Irish speech in the Appalachians, and according to the author both "you'all" and "you'uns" are Scotch-Irish.

[blueskies49]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

But anyway...the only thing I am going to say with this one (because I have promised myself not to re-open this can of worms anymore than necessary! LOL)

But TR, we NEED you to keep this up because there is a never-ending mess of new posters to this forum who need a "schooling" (or reschooling, as the case may be) in the complexity of the Texas identity.

[keltec]

Actually is "ya'll" so try to remember that, ya'll.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by keltec

Actually is "ya'll" so try to remember that, ya'll.

This one is frequently argued, but I have to disagree and say the correct spelling would be y'all. This would seem to make sense if the word is a contraction for "you-all." That is, the apostrophe in a contraction is supposed to fill in for missing letters. In the case of you-all, one would take out the "ou" since there is nothing to take out in "all." "Ya'll", if literally pronounced as spelled, just wouldn't sound anything like what most of us say and/or hear!

With that said, I don't really care how it is spelled, just as long as its use is respected!

[PanTerra]

Originally Posted by keltec

Actually is "ya'll" so try to remember that, ya'll.

No, it's not, unless that is a typo. That would be like writing "do'nt."



y'all (yôl) pronoun
Chiefly Southern U.S..
Variant of YOU-ALL. See Regional Note at YOU-ALL.[1]

[1]The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from InfoSoft International, Inc. All rights reserved.

[MomInVA]

Hi,

I'm a Washingtonian, who moved to Virginia. Now have been here living here for 6 yrs.... My husband is from Maryland and he and his family always says Y'alls... like "Is that y'alls car out there"... Do "y'all" :0) you guys say that... I here y'all here as well and have adopted it like other people have that say it but when I write I always put you guys like I above...

Keep up with your lingo cause I love hearing it...(I used to be a Flight Attendant) and when I had Texans on my flights, (hee haw).. they are few of the nicest people to ever come across my way.

[jdplus3]

As a recent transplant to TX, from Michigan... my husband and I say YOU GUYS. Sometimes YOUS GUYS. Y'all was used only when joking around, usually. I think Y'ALL may have slipped out a couple times in the past 2 yrs, tho. My kids all say Y'ALL without hesitation. And yes... we still say "EH?" hahaha