Y'all or You guys? (West, Howe: fit in, home, schools)

[scubashawn68]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

And your honest opinion is appreciated and noted. In turn, I have to ask -- NOT being rude nor sarcastic in my own turn -- why is the use of "y'all" considered to be (by some) improper English? It is (lyrically lovely, in fact!) a contraction of "you-all", and a perfect second person plural pronoun.

If one is addressing a group of women, does it make better sense in the proper English or idiomatic sense, to say "you guys"...?

Again, regional terminology is a source of contention sometime, so I am not trying to be flip nor sour either. At the same time though, I confess that I will never quite understand the foundation for the sentiments you express. Quite frankly, and yes, this is just MHO too, I find it very patronizing and condecending, even if such is truly not intended (and I believe you don't mean it that way). Yet it does contain a certain reflexive bias against Texas and the South...the old unfounded cliche' that a certain accent and idiom marks one as backwood and hillbilly. Even if nothing else in the world supports such a presumption...

You asked "why is it considered improper English ? " . Those words are "slang" words, not proper English. Personally I find it amusing when people use "slang". It does not mean that I feel like I am better than those that use those words. I was only stating a fact that it is not proper English.

[seattlerain]

Originally Posted by scubashawn68

Sorry, but I do not buy that. As I have educated friends from Texas as well as other parts of the South and the do not use that type of language or "slang".

I have educated friends from Texas, as well as family in North Carolina that do use "that type of language"

Like it or not, people from all walks of life use regional words in everyday speech.

My point is that it is an extreme over generalization that only uneducated people use either of those terms.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by scubashawn68

You asked "why is it considered improper English ? " . Those words are "slang" words, not proper English. Personally I find it amusing when people use "slang". It does not mean that I feel like I am better than those that use those words. I was only stating a fact that it is not proper English.

Lets first of all establish that this exchange is not one of us trying to be superior nor another trying to be flippant. If we can agree on that, as the judge used to say in Perry Mason..."let's proceed" LOL

Anyway, you don't explain WHY it is NOT "proper" English. Please cite the grammatical rules which back up what you say. You label it slang, I think, because in your part of the country it is not in common usage and is associated with what is often percieved as hick -- or something like that -- in your neck of the woods (as we say in Texas!).

Be as it may, why is a contraction of "you all", considered poor English or slang (other than it happens to have Southern origins), as opposed to why "you guys" acceptable in the sense of correctness of address...?

[scubashawn68]

Originally Posted by seattlerain

I have educated friends from Texas, as well as family in North Carolina that do use "that type of language"

Like it or not, people from all walks of life use regional words in everyday speech.

My point is that it is an extreme over generalization that only uneducated people use either of those terms.

That's your opinion. I see it differently. I do respect your opinion as well as many others.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by scubashawn68

Sorry, but I do not buy that. As I have educated friends from Texas as well as other parts of the South and the do not use that type of language or "slang".

Well, it IS a start that you acknowlege there are actually educated people in Texas and the South! LOL

Are the ones you speak of -- as in "educated" -- those who have taken college courses to lose their accents? Personally, I feel sorry for folks like that. To wit, buy into that the roots of their Southern American English is something to be ashamed of. How very sad.

Also, if an educated persons vocabulary includes the use of "y'all" or "yonder" or "fixin to"...does it make them any less educated or brilliant?

[seattlerain]

Here is an interesting article from the University of Pittsburgh about the subject we are discussing.

University Times|Yunz have nothing to be ashamed of, UPJ prof says of regional speech

The article talks about the use of both "y'all", and "yunz".

[seattlerain]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Well, it IS a start that you acknowlege there are actually educated people in Texas and the South! LOL

Are the ones you speak of those who have taken college courses to lose their accents? Personally, I feel sorry for folks like that. To wit, buy into that the roots of their Southern American English is something to be ashamed of. How very sad.

Also, if an educated persons vocabulary includes the use of "y'all" or "yonder" or "fixin to"...does it make them any less educated or brilliant?

I have a second cousin who is a cardiologist that graduated from Duke University School of Medicine, and he still uses "fixin to" and y'all.

[PanTerra]

Before I moved to Dallas, I lived in Chicago and was fine with saying, "you guys" pronounced y'guys. That was before I was educated. Then I moved to Texas and received my education, and found myself saying , "y'all." However, it helped that upon our arrival we were given a little book, a gloosary of Texan terms, meanings, and pronunciations.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by seattlerain

Here is an interesting article from the University of Pittsburgh about the subject we are discussing.

University Times|Yunz have nothing to be ashamed of, UPJ prof says of regional speech

The article talks about the use of both "y'all", and "yunz".

Great article, Seattle. Thanks!

[theSUBlime]

Actually, "y'all" has migrated from Southern areas into places that did not already have regionalisms in place, though it is a traditonally Southern expression.