High speed rail for the texas triangle? (Houston, Dallas: cul-de-sac, live)

[KantLockeMeIn]

Originally Posted by Danilo-11

I'm not arguing where it comes,
I'm arguing your argument that "electricity cannot be cheaper than its source fuel"
If that's the case, why is it that all factories use electric motors instead of coal or gas motors?

Economies of scale. If your core business is energy and you purchase 100,000 tons of coal per day, you get a better price than a business who would purchase 50 tons per day. Not to mention the cost of regulatory compliance... which is much cheaper for larger companies than point solutions.

You will see more companies embrace wind and solar where they are effective and once the cost of generation comes closer to that of natural gas and coal, or when consumers put a higher value on goods produced by "green" companies and are willing to offset the cost of higher energy.

[killer2021]

Originally Posted by changeofpace

Mass Transit, buses, light rail, Amtrak and high speed rail are all subsidized by the taxpayer. They are services provided to move people and are considered part of the infrastructure. Soon air travel will also be subsidized by tax payers. Not sure how much more tax payers can absorb and are willing to pay for when you consider all the highways and byways that also need repair and upgrading.

Well that sure sucks. I guess gas prices are still cheap compared to other forms of transportation. So I guess this idea is a ways off. But still would be cool. I would probably live in waco/temple/fort hood if I could take the train.

[WillysB]

I've taken the Amtrak between Austin and Dallas, one year ago. It was an okay train, clean, pleasant. But the schedule was slow. The Amtrak on that route does NOT take the right of way so has to stop and wait for freight trains to pass by. Some waits were in excess of twenty minutes. And there were many. The route does not even go into Waco but stops in McGregor, ten miles away.

I've grown weary of long drives around Texas. I would certainly use a high speed train if available.

[TXTwizter]

If it means that I wouldnt have to drive, fly or take Greyhound, I AM ALL FOR IT!!!!

[imaterry78259]

I really think Houston to San Antonio should be a vital link because its creates almost a third major port of knowledge in the US. Mexico via Sa to H town

[texdav]

If you look at the airlne studies then high speed trains from houston to dallas makes sense, But they don't seem to support much in the austin and san antonio area which is why they don't have good airline service in both cities.

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by Lucidus

There are other factors involved besides the price per unit of energy, like pollution, availability, logistics, etc. Electricity is a generally useful and convenient enough to be worth the added expense over direct consumption of fossil fuels.

Hey guys, here is the real math. Although most trains in the US are driven by DC motor axles, the electric power that drives them is generated by on an on-board diesel generator. Diesel generators put out only 1/6. to 1/3 of the energy in electricity as they consume in diesel fuel -- so they are very lossy.

In Texas sources for electric driven trains include local existing nuke, local existing coal plants, gas (more expensive), and newer wind and solar thermal generation. Overall it would be cheaper to run the trains from grid power, but the electric distribution has not (yet?) been built for that -- so on with on-board diesel generators we go.

Mostly a money thing and a case of whether The Powers That Be continue to think short term or shift to long term thinking.

As far as the high speed electric passenger rail coming to Texas, the limiting factor is not finance, nor available power, nor demand -- that is all here. The present limiting factor is SouthWest Airlines -- they lobby (bribe) BIG TIME in Austin to keep it from happening.

So for now it continues to be $$$ for SWA, and F U Texas.

[jd2008]

My understanding is that there was a plan in place in the early 1990's and Southwest Airlines killed it because they flooded the state legislature with campaign donations. So if it wasn't for that bribery, we would already have a system.

Anyway, I find it really hilarious when people complain about the frankly minimal amount of money we subsidize mass transit with in this country but have zero problem with the billions we spend on roads, streets, and highways. Your fuel taxes don't pay for all of that people.

Also, we are increasingly subsidizing the airline industry. Just watch; the next government bailout will cover the airlines. It has happened before.

And despite all this, their service keeps getting worse and worse (probably will make you pay for the seatbelt next) and yet our government protects them from outside competition. Foreign airlines would love to be able to come into the US and compete on domestic routes (for example British Airways) but they are banned because of their political power and their lobbying. A joke.

[killer2021]

Originally Posted by jd2008

My understanding is that there was a plan in place in the early 1990's and Southwest Airlines killed it because they flooded the state legislature with campaign donations. So if it wasn't for that bribery, we would already have a system.

Anyway, I find it really hilarious when people complain about the frankly minimal amount of money we subsidize mass transit with in this country but have zero problem with the billions we spend on roads, streets, and highways. Your fuel taxes don't pay for all of that people.

Also, we are increasingly subsidizing the airline industry. Just watch; the next government bailout will cover the airlines. It has happened before.

And despite all this, their service keeps getting worse and worse (probably will make you pay for the seatbelt next) and yet our government protects them from outside competition. Foreign airlines would love to be able to come into the US and compete on domestic routes (for example British Airways) but they are banned because of their political power and their lobbying. A joke.

Haha no kidding. I just saw something in the news about automakers getting bonds

By as early as next spring, U.S. automakers will be able to tap into a $25 billion low-interest line of credit from the government to help them modernize their plants to build more fuel-efficient vehicle

Federal loans to automakers could flow in 6 months - NewsFlash - mlive.com

[The MacGregor Clan]

The energy part is easy, actually.
Start by encouraging small businesses for people with trucks and trailers to gather up all the junk cars and appliances scattered all over Texas and taking them to steel recycling centers. Grind them up, melt it and make standard size steel parts for carports.
Design the carports so they will be high enough to cover RVs and manufactured (mobile) homes.
Build elevated concrete Maglev train tracks 20 feet above and along Hwy 290 (The Independence Trail) between Austin and Houston. Design the tracks to be for light rail and/or maybe light freight to relieve the strain on the Interstates.
Develop retirement communities and RV resorts near the new commuter rail lines and rural communities with good hospitals and municipal airports.
Design the retirement communities and RV resorts as solar power powered distributed generators and incorporate the roofs of the carports with thin-film photovoltaics and put all the excess gigawatts of solar energy into the new high-temperature super-conducting power transmission lines that are incorporated into the elevated railways.
Sell stock in the companies involved and let the young workers invest in mutual funds they can draw from when they retire into a community they built for 40 years with their 401K.

See, I told you it would be easy. Remember the marketing angle of this being along the "Texas Independence Trail".

Doing this will create thousands of jobs and save billions of dollars in social security. It recycles and reduces carbon emissions. It will pull seniors out of crumbling inner cities and allow the next generation of workers to come in and rehab whole downtown projects.

It will also help bring new technology to the market place by giving it a high visibility application.

How many retirees in Texas would like to move out of the city and relax? Millions!
How many Winter Texans come down from the north every winter? Hundreds of thousands!

Don't forget about the summer jobs for students at colleges near the tracks such as UT, A&M, U of H, Rice, Blinn, San Jac, etc.