Are atheists welcome in Texas (Austin, West: store, bill, to eat)

[Metro Matt]

To the OP

Atheists are everywhere & no one in Texas is going to try & force their beliefs on you. Not everyone in Texas has a fish emblem on the back of their SUV.

[Canine*Castle]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

To the OP

Atheists are everywhere & no one in Texas is going to try & force their beliefs on you. Not everyone in Texas has a fish emblem on the back of their SUV.

Yes, and those who do like to make a statement with those symbols, kind of like making a statement with a Lexus. Their own character isn't enough to "prove" their identity.

[kaleyna]

>>>>Well, if you're a real atheist, you should have no reason to think something is bad or good because on the naturalistic worldview, we are just a product of random biological molecules bouncing around--and are no different than the tiger that kills a zebra for food. What makes humans special? Christians believe morality comes form God.>>>I'm sorry, but how truly ignorant. Atheists, and other life philosophies that don't worship a god, do what is good or bad because they develop their moral compasses based on what they feel is good and kind and right coexisting in the world with others, not because some god figure tells them to and promises either rewards or punishment. They believe morality comes from within themselves and their interactions with others. In fact, believing this is our life and there is no more tends to make how you treat other people, other living creatures and the environment that much MORE important. But then I was the kind of kid who tried to do good and be kind to others because it was the right thing to do, not because I hoped to get a candy bar at the end. Just because you need to believe people have an eternal soul and there is a heaven to reward you to be good to others doesn't mean others need the same motivation. Did the original poster ever make a decision? I'm intersted in hearing what they think.

[catman]

Excellent post, kaleyna. A bump for you! I think we'd better leave the subject at this, since the Lord High Moderators will no doubt take a dim view of the subject matter.

[TexasNick]

Originally Posted by kaleyna

Atheists, and other life philosophies that don't worship a god, do what is good or bad because they develop their moral compasses based on what they feel is good and kind and right coexisting in the world with others, not because some god figure tells them to and promises either rewards or punishment. They believe morality comes from within themselves and their interactions with others. In fact, believing this is our life and there is no more tends to make how you treat other people, other living creatures and the environment that much MORE important.

If naturalism is true, it becomes impossible to condemn war, oppression, or crime as evil. Nor can one praise brotherhood, equality, or love as good. It does not matter what values you choose—for there is no right and wrong; good and evil do not exist. That means that an atrocity like the Holocaust was really morally indifferent. You may think that it was wrong, but your opinion has no more validity than that of the Nazi war criminal who thought it was good.

So, why are some things wrong for you?

Acts of self sacrifice become particularly unnecessary on a naturalistic world view. Why should you sacrifice your self interest and especially your life for the sake of someone else? There can be no good reason for adopting such a self-negating course of action on the aetheistic world view. A soldier throwing his body over a hand grenade to save his comrades does nothing more significant or praiseworthy, morally speaking, than a fighter ant which sacrifices itself for the sake of the ant hill.

By the way this is just a friendly jab to my atheist friends. I truly have a few atheist friends and I am always getting on their case about their beliefs...but we do so usually after a fine dinner at a restaurant and a good time was had by all. I just like to argue and debate these things, that's all Certainly beats discussing politics!

[bostoner]

Originally Posted by kaleyna

>>>>Well, if you're a real atheist, you should have no reason to think something is bad or good because on the naturalistic worldview, we are just a product of random biological molecules bouncing around--and are no different than the tiger that kills a zebra for food. What makes humans special? Christians believe morality comes form God.>>>I'm sorry, but how truly ignorant. Atheists, and other life philosophies that don't worship a god, do what is good or bad because they develop their moral compasses based on what they feel is good and kind and right coexisting in the world with others, not because some god figure tells them to and promises either rewards or punishment. They believe morality comes from within themselves and their interactions with others. In fact, believing this is our life and there is no more tends to make how you treat other people, other living creatures and the environment that much MORE important. But then I was the kind of kid who tried to do good and be kind to others because it was the right thing to do, not because I hoped to get a candy bar at the end. Just because you need to believe people have an eternal soul and there is a heaven to reward you to be good to others doesn't mean others need the same motivation. Did the original poster ever make a decision? I'm intersted in hearing what they think.

Very good post!

[kaleyna]

If the only reason you do good for others is because you think a god will reward or punish you, I feel sad for you but that is your right to choose that belief. But just because you tie your morality to a god does not mean that is the only reason someone might have morals or certain standards they follow in life. Being an atheist does not mean you can't think or philosophize or decide what you believe is right or wrong. It is inane to think just because people don't believe we were created by a god, they can't have morals or beliefs or ideas on right or wrong. Humans have the ability to think and reason and judge. They can look at the world and at living in societies with others and so on and make decisions on how they want to act without needing some god to tell them what to do. Really.

And actually if you read any evolutionary biology you would find many acts of self sacrifice are found in the human and animal kingdom, especially when there is a blood relative or even species connection. And of course there are even cases across species with say a dog drowning after jumping in a river to save an owner or a human dying running into a burning barn to save a beloved horse.

[TexasNick]

Lets see how long this thread lasts before it's moved

Kaleyna, it would, indeed, be arrogant to claim that people cannot be good without belief in God. We're not talking about goodness without belief in God, but goodness without God.

The question is: can we be good without God? If morality is just a human convention, then why should we act morally, especially when it conflicts with self-interest? Or are we in some way held accountable for our moral decisions and actions?

You say it's of biological nature. Problem is, that's an old argument no longer even used by prominent atheists! in a nutshell for you, it comes down to this: either humans are animals or they are not. If they are, then anything goes. There is nothing special about them. If they are not, then a divine lawgiver comes into play. Catch up on my morality debate in the City Data philosophy forum here.

But, to stay on topic...atheists are welcome in Texas. Moreso now then ever.

Originally Posted by kaleyna

And of course there are even cases across species with say a dog drowning after jumping in a river to save an owner or a human dying running into a burning barn to save a beloved horse.

And animals eat their babies and rape other animals in the animal kingdom....but they are doing it for survival purposes, right? You'll contradict yourself using that old argument.

[catman]

TexasNick: There are animals, and there are other animals who have self-awareness and introspection, and a sense of right and wrong ('fairness') which is not dependent upon a supernatural belief. Not all animals are alike. We are the only ones, so far as is known, to posit a supernatural realm at all.

Another way to look at is: not only can we be 'good' (I would call it ethical) without belief in a god, but we can certainly be 'bad' with belief, perhaps even because of it. That's all I'm going to say about it. To each his own. I get along fine with my uber-religious neighbors; we all have the good judgement not to bring up religion.

[Terri722]

Originally Posted by Canine*Castle

Yes, and those who do like to make a statement with those symbols, kind of like making a statement with a Lexus. Their own character isn't enough to "prove" their identity.

I found this an interesting interpretation of a simple symbol of believing
in God...people have all sorts of things on their cars to identify themselves...supporters of the SPCA...football teams...gay symbols...
but only the ones showing belief in God are *fake*....I think not...and
I DO believe in God and have nothing to prove to anyone because of
it...