Why Are People ALWAYS Bashing Texas & Houston? (Dallas, Austin: racism, metropolitan area)

[Lakewooder]

I grew up in Dallas and I am old enough to have seen the desegregation of the schools. I do not know of any particular riots that were more than a little scuffle here or there.

We have elected a black mayor and black district attorney, and our elected county sheriff is a Lesbian Latina -- so I think your argument is moot.

[theloneranger]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

I grew up in Dallas and I am old enough to have seen the desegregation of the schools. I do not know of any particular riots that were more than a little scuffle here or there.

We have elected a black mayor and black district attorney, and our elected county sheriff is a Lesbian Latina -- so I think your argument is moot.

My mom grew up in Tulsa but spent significant time down here and she says that the segregation was much worse in Tulsa than in Dallas, and that she would literally never see any blacks who were not employed as waiters at her country club (which they later left because of it's unwillingness to integrate). In Dallas, she said you could at least see blacks in most parts of town during the day, even if they weren't allowed to live there.

[jluke65780]

Originally Posted by tindo80

I choose not to respond to that poster because I was honestly not sure of their genuity in their reply to me (their addition of 'Detriot', disparaging comments on slave emancipation and the SPLC and anti-hate groups kinda makes it see like that person is coming from the 'other' side of thinking...the side thats not in support of ethnic cohesiveness)

That, and you totally gave the history lesson I would have just given as well



I am not sure if I can post it here, but google search dallas race riots. You will come up with it somewhere, there is a direct link to a book that refers to it (the 70s one).

There is also the 60s MLK assasination riots that happened there, as well as a few 'hushed' early 60s civil rights clashes, as well as the 20s riots you mentioned (which were extremely bloody, and resulted in a number of hangings). The same for the houston riots, but the ones I specifically was referring to in houston were the ones that occurred after black WW1 (and then repeated in WW2) vets returned home to angry crowds.

I was not comparing on scale, but rather on incident. And historical precedence. Its hard to face the fact, but the honest truth Texas, just like all other southern states, has a really bad and bloody history with race relations, specifically african americans and whites, but also (in texas's case specifically) mexican americans and whites.

Yes, overall hispanics (not blacks) have had relatively harmonious relations with whites, at least up until the last 6 years or so, but that is mostly due to the bizarre and unscientific former policy of racial identification and segregation. Hispanics were considered white legally. That did not stop several towns and places (even near my hometown of San Antonio) from establishing within their charters bans on allowing mexican americans to live or settle or work in the area however.



I disagree very much there. St Louis, Boston, Washington DC, Most of Ohio, Michigan (relatively), Milwaukee, Miami, Atlanta...are all extremely diverse, and there are plenty of pockets of large minority communities in between. Everywhere from Omaha to Seattle to Salt Lake to Santa Fe to Phoenix to Cincinatti to Reno. The only thing those 3 cities have on other places is shear large numbers of population, which is different than ethnic and racial diversity.



Again I disagree. New York and CA I already mentioned (or should have in the case of NY) are more cohesive, but look at New Mexico, or Nevada (southern) or New Jersey.

Granted, states with more white people, when judged overall, tend to be more cohesive with their smaller minority populations, but even when you look at the very diverse urban areas of those states, compared to the diverse areas of Texas, they are much further along.

They have their problems, but compared to Texas, its nowhere near as bad.

Texans who live in the state for a long time and have not lived outside or do not live outside the state often get the idea that Texas is either the best as 'everything' or the 'standard and nowhere will have it better'. I was once one of them. That changes once you move out of state.

Self segregation, though still a problem everywhere, is extremely noticeable even today in Texas. Of all the states I have spend significant time in, Texas is the only one where no matter how rich a person of color is (brown or black), they will be relegated to non-white upper working class neighborhoods. White flight is still the modus operandi in SA, Houston, Corpus, Dallas and parts of outer Austin. Yes, its in other places, but not nearly as much. Interracial relationships seem to be subject to more hostility (I have personal experience with this), and the number of hate crimes, according to the FBI (Again I dont know if I am allowed to link that cite) fairly high.

Heck, I even lived in Northern Idaho for a brief time, and the ire between different peoples was less than it was the last time I returned to Texas (there are a number of mexican americans who live in Idaho and a few african americans who live there as well).

Ask a person from NY or CA who has been to TX, and ask them which place they think is more intergrated. Texas is VERY intergrated compared to many other states.

[tindo80]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

I grew up in Dallas and I am old enough to have seen the desegregation of the schools. I do not know of any particular riots that were more than a little scuffle here or there.

We have elected a black mayor and black district attorney, and our elected county sheriff is a Lesbian Latina -- so I think your argument is moot.

I was never arguing that Texas is not diverse or utterly intolerant or anything like that. My argument was simply as far as inter-ethnic cohesiveness goes, Texas overall compared to other states, as well as its urban areas overall compared to other urban areas are significantly behind. Not worst than, not lesser than, simply behind.

There have been black mayors of almost every major city with over 100k people, even in places with few black people. Unfortunately the same has not occurred as often with hispanics however.

The state being often compared to, CA, had a homosexual mayor as well as several publically out of the closet figures when Texas was still battling the Lawrence v Texas anti sodomy cases.

Originally Posted by jluke

Ask a person from NY or CA who has been to TX, and ask them which place they think is more intergrated. Texas is VERY intergrated compared to many other states.

I am, and I do, and I have. I have been to all three states (CA more recently than the others), I lived in 1 of them, and have family that lives in all three. Likewise, many of the folks I went to college with were from NY or CA.


Trust me, TX is overall less cohesive. Those places have issues with ethnicity and segregation and the like, but Texas, in my and all other I knows experience, is significantly behind. And by cohesiveness, i do not simply mean segregation, I mean peoples attitudes towards others, as well as what people believe as fact.

I can remember in High school (in texas) being told that Mexican American women hit puberty faster and Mexican men have more hormones than others, and that was why latinos have more children, or that blacks have extra 'fast twitch muscles' on their bodies which makes them good at sports, or that women who breast feed their sons past 2 will make them homosexual etc etc.
All nonsense, but many people believe and go day to day assuming that as if it was hard science. Some of this was being proposed by teachers at that.

I am not bashing in any way the state. I grew up there. Its a great place and people give it too much crap for their own stereotypes they place on Texans, but its problems do exist and they are significant.

[theloneranger]

Originally Posted by tindo80

I was never arguing that Texas is not diverse or utterly intolerant or anything like that. My argument was simply as far as inter-ethnic cohesiveness goes, Texas overall compared to other states, as well as its urban areas overall compared to other urban areas are significantly behind. Not worst than, not lesser than, simply behind.

There have been black mayors of almost every major city with over 100k people, even in places with few black people. Unfortunately the same has not occurred as often with hispanics however.

The state being often compared to, CA, had a homosexual mayor as well as several publically out of the closet figures when Texas was still battling the Lawrence v Texas anti sodomy cases.



I am, and I do, and I have. I have been to all three states (CA more recently than the others), I lived in 1 of them, and have family that lives in all three. Likewise, many of the folks I went to college with were from NY or CA.


Trust me, TX is overall less cohesive. Those places have issues with ethnicity and segregation and the like, but Texas, in my and all other I knows experience, is significantly behind. And by cohesiveness, i do not simply mean segregation, I mean peoples attitudes towards others, as well as what people believe as fact.

I can remember in High school (in texas) being told that Mexican American women hit puberty faster and Mexican men have more hormones than others, and that was why latinos have more children, or that blacks have extra 'fast twitch muscles' on their bodies which makes them good at sports, or that women who breast feed their sons past 2 will make them homosexual etc etc.
All nonsense, but many people believe and go day to day assuming that as if it was hard science. Some of this was being proposed by teachers at that.

I am not bashing in any way the state. I grew up there. Its a great place and people give it too much crap for their own stereotypes they place on Texans, but its problems do exist and they are significant.

San Francisco did have a homosexual mayor, yes, but it absolutely is not racially diverse in the slightest. You have to cross a bridge to run into any African-Americans.

As for those backwards beliefs, trust me that Texas was not alone in teaching those things to people. The "fast twitch muscles" belief about blacks was common throughout the country until the 1970s or 1980s. I have never heard of any of those things about Mexican Americans here in Texas or heard any grown person speak of those as beliefs they used to have, but I highly, highly doubt they were isolated to Texas alone. I'm sure they told white kids the same thing in CA back then.

[jluke65780]

Originally Posted by tindo80

I was never arguing that Texas is not diverse or utterly intolerant or anything like that. My argument was simply as far as inter-ethnic cohesiveness goes, Texas overall compared to other states, as well as its urban areas overall compared to other urban areas are significantly behind. Not worst than, not lesser than, simply behind.

There have been black mayors of almost every major city with over 100k people, even in places with few black people. Unfortunately the same has not occurred as often with hispanics however.

The state being often compared to, CA, had a homosexual mayor as well as several publically out of the closet figures when Texas was still battling the Lawrence v Texas anti sodomy cases.



I am, and I do, and I have. I have been to all three states (CA more recently than the others), I lived in 1 of them, and have family that lives in all three. Likewise, many of the folks I went to college with were from NY or CA.


Trust me, TX is overall less cohesive. Those places have issues with ethnicity and segregation and the like, but Texas, in my and all other I knows experience, is significantly behind. And by cohesiveness, i do not simply mean segregation, I mean peoples attitudes towards others, as well as what people believe as fact.

I can remember in High school (in texas) being told that Mexican American women hit puberty faster and Mexican men have more hormones than others, and that was why latinos have more children, or that blacks have extra 'fast twitch muscles' on their bodies which makes them good at sports, or that women who breast feed their sons past 2 will make them homosexual etc etc.
All nonsense, but many people believe and go day to day assuming that as if it was hard science. Some of this was being proposed by teachers at that.

I am not bashing in any way the state. I grew up there. Its a great place and people give it too much crap for their own stereotypes they place on Texans, but its problems do exist and they are significant.

I doubt it. Race wars are still BIG in those states. Seriously how can say a place is cohesive when you got areas called "Chinatown, Little Saigon, Little Mexico, Little India, Little Haiti,etc"

Texas is very integrated, and I can't believe out of all places. You say Texas is less cohesive than CA or NY. Very laughable.

[tindo80]

Originally Posted by theloneranger

San Francisco did have a homosexual mayor, yes, but it absolutely is not racially diverse in the slightest. You have to cross a bridge to run into any African-Americans.

Thats not true at all. There are pockets of African Americans, Asians, and Mexicans all throughout San Francisco. San Fran is extremely diverse. In fact, I was there not too long ago (would say recent, but it was not that recent) in what looking like an african american neighborhood, which also seemed to have a number of Hispanics and whites living there as well. According to City data, 7% of the city is African american, and 14 percent of the city is Hispanic, and 10+% is asian.

Also, as I mentioned, I was never saying Texas was not diverse. Ive been saying it is extremely diverse in every post now. What I am referring to is cohesiveness.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

As for those backwards beliefs, trust me that Texas was not alone in teaching those things to people. The "fast twitch muscles" belief about blacks was common throughout the country until the 1970s or 1980s. I have never heard of any of those things about Mexican Americans here in Texas or heard any grown person speak of those as beliefs they used to have, but I highly, highly doubt they were isolated to Texas alone. I'm sure they told white kids the same thing in CA back then.

About the muscle fibers, I have never seen any serious medical data indicating this, even from the 70s or 80s, though it may exist. Are you sure you are not assuming that it was everywhere in the country because it was popular in Texas, alluding to what I mentioned we Texans (or people from any large state) often do when comparing our state to others?

It seemed to me as simple racial and ethnic stereotypes, the same as so many others, that people with closed minds choose to believe to make others more alien/menacing.

You may be right about other places having such abundant ideals...I only grew up in Texas so I can only say it was there for sure. Then again, I remember in college mentioning this to a few folks who attended school in a north western state, and I received quick and stringent rebuking (even though I was aware those claims were not true). This is a state with comparably few hispanics and blacks, and even they had never heard of such nonsense being professed.

Originally Posted by jluke

I doubt it. Race wars are still BIG in those states. Seriously how can say a place is cohesive when you got areas called "Chinatown, Little Saigon, Little Mexico, Little India, Little Haiti,etc"

Racial conflict happens in most states unfortunately. Texas as well. But again, something like that would be an 'exception' (I have never heard of 'common place' or 'ongoing' 'racial/interethnic wars'). I was referring to overall community cohesiveness...how well people of different backgrounds overall get along in neighborhoods, at work, in their communities, at schools etc. In my experience and most others, Texas is behind on this.


I was just looking around a few other pages, and it seems I am not alone in this frame of thought. Many other posters with experience in TX have made the same observations.

[sxrckr]

Originally Posted by tindo80

I was referring to overall community cohesiveness...how well people of different backgrounds overall get along in neighborhoods, at work, in their communities, at schools etc. In my experience and most others, Texas is behind on this.

Not my experience at all. Especially in the large cities.

[Lovely95]

Those of you saying texas doesn't have cohesiveness, lol, you are so wrong. How can you match up to other people's experiences? And let me tell you something, America in general is rascist, not just one place. So Texas had race riots, so did California and even parts of New York. Not to mention the south has a terrible rep when it comes to this, but I have been to places like Mississippi and felt very welcomed. Okay, just acccept that there have been rascism in this country throughout time and it is just not one place. If anything, I don't hear Texas doing racial profiling in schools like I saw in California recently. I even read an article where they were going to segregate students based on ethnicity just so the white children wouldn't look bad in overall school test scores. I don't want to say anything bad about CA because it is great, but don't get to thinking that anywhere else is socially better than Texas. Some people have had bad experiences in one or the other, others in both, some in neither. What can you do?

[ga gal in tx now]

Lived in Atlanta for years and now in the Houston area for six years. My experience has been the people in Houston are much nicer than those in Atlanta. Texans love their State and how could you not love that pride? Atlanta is a more attractive city than Houston but the corruption in local Atlanta government is horrific! I love Texas and would never trade it for Georgia.