Why Are People ALWAYS Bashing Texas & Houston? (Dallas, San Antonio: zoned, slums)

[LAnative10]

Originally Posted by worldlyman

Well, from a social perspective, you see Latinos, African-Americans and whites partying in downtown Houston in somewhat equal numbers.

I've never seen that in SoCal, to be quite honest. And I'm not speaking about general tourist spots such as 3rd Promenade in Santa Monica. (Tourist spots in San Diego are generally whitebread.)

Sunset Blvd, Melrose, West Hollywood and such party spots? Mostly a whitebread feel. I sat and drank coffee at the Hollywood Hustler after going up and down Sunset, mingling and soaking up the vibe. It's basically white folks except for some Asians en masse going to the Key Club one Saturday night.

I get off the rail in downtown Houston one Saturday...and it's hard to tell what race dominated. A mix of white yuppie types, black hip hoppers, Latinos getting ready to salsa...

Alief, Sharpstown, West Oaks, and other areas along Highway 6 up to FM 1960...yeah, those parts of Houston are AS INTEGRATED as Carson, Torrance, et al.

L.A.'s San Gabriel Valley vast suburban Chinatown area, for example, is basically, well, East Asian.

Houston's equivalent to that, New Chinatown along Bellaire Blvd...has virtual mix of Bengali, Pakistani, Nigerian and Latin American to complement.

We can easily find Salvadoran pupusas, lamb biryani or Nigerian spicy rice in pathways close to Beechnut, Bissonnet and Bellaire Blvds near New Chinatown Houston.

Where can you find that along Atlantic or Valley Blvd in the SG Valley in that great East Asian sector of Los Angeles?

See what I mean? Where is there a Mosque near there? Where are there hip hop African-Americans driving through?

Bellaire Blvd in Houston has that near identical look of sprawling East Asian neon ala Valley or Atlantic Blvd...BUT there's a much greater free flow of different races going through. (And it's a bit more racy and dangerous but hey, integration is integration.)

Back in the day, there was once a happening African-American club called Jamaica Jamaica on the doorstep of Houston's affluent River Oaks.

Has there ever been a happening African-American nightclub on the doorstep of Beverly Hills?

Things move around here racially in Houston, AT LEAST. Once upon a time, there was the partying Shepherd Plaza nightclub district catering to yuppies in the mid 90s. Then in the late 90s, when action moved downtown, African Americans started to frequent Cabo, Ballroom, Strict 9 and such in Shepherd Plaza. The clubs started to, ah, mysteriously close some time after. (But downtown Houston seems to have stabilized...black nightclubs mixed with white frat bars mixed with higher end Theater District culture...where else but?)

When the scene essentially waned in Westwood Village...did that area ever attract African Americans to take over when said scene shifted?

I think there's a native California arrogance that looks down on Texas in any category. But my experiences living in Southern California and Houston led me to see otherwise. Houston is more superior in terms of integration.

"Very few neighborhoods?" Really, vast patches of East L.A. strictly Latino, white people who never go to the Jewelry District in downtown L.A (one of my favorite parts out there), the separate races of Inglewood, Compton, Beverly Hills, Culver City...the aforementioned SG Valley among so many places out there.

L.A. is KNOWN for racial segregation and such issues.

Check this interesting article:
Diversity Aside, L.A. Still a Segregated City - NAM

Let me take this piece by piece.

First off you are over generalizing way too much. Youre cutting LA short. Youre last point is dead wrong.

I guess its time for me to stand up for my home.

There are whitebread neighborhoods in just about every city. River Oaks and Tanglewood most certainly fit that bill. Also, Beverly Hills isnt really that white. The latest estimates put the cities population at about 40% Persian. For those of you who have been there, you shouldnt be the least bit surprised. If I had to pick a white bread place in LA, it would be Santa Monica, and Manhattan and Hermosa Beaches.

As for Hollywood its made up of tourists, so you cant really go on what you see there. I grew up in LA, Im white, and I absolutely hate Hollywood.

In the San Gabriel Valley, there is a very good mix of white, Asian, and Latino. Its not purely East Asian as you say.

Youre throwing the South Central cities out theyre saying its all one race while neglicting to mention that there are plenty of neighborhoods in Houston that are exactly the same. Inglewood and Compton are mixes of Black and Latino. The same way that areas of South Houston has that mix.

Culver City is about 60% white. The rest is a good mix of all the races.

Im sorry dude, but throwing LA under the bus to make Houston look good doesnt hold water with me.

[LAnative10]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

Riddle me this...when has Houston ever had racial riots break out & part of a city damn near destroyed?

I just saw on the news yesterday where a prison in California was just about burned to the ground because of racial wars & gang violence. You won't see that happen kinda thing happen in Texas prisons because most of them know where they're headed...death row.

Texas has made more progress than we have recently, but Texas had farther to come as well.

[jluke65780]

Originally Posted by LAnative10

Let me take this piece by piece.

First off you are over generalizing way too much. Youre cutting LA short. Youre last point is dead wrong.

I guess its time for me to stand up for my home.

There are whitebread neighborhoods in just about every city. River Oaks and Tanglewood most certainly fit that bill. Also, Beverly Hills isnt really that white. The latest estimates put the cities population at about 40% Persian. For those of you who have been there, you shouldnt be the least bit surprised. If I had to pick a white bread place in LA, it would be Santa Monica, and Manhattan and Hermosa Beaches.

As for Hollywood its made up of tourists, so you cant really go on what you see there. I grew up in LA, Im white, and I absolutely hate Hollywood.

In the San Gabriel Valley, there is a very good mix of white, Asian, and Latino. Its not purely East Asian as you say.

Youre throwing the South Central cities out theyre saying its all one race while neglicting to mention that there are plenty of neighborhoods in Houston that are exactly the same. Inglewood and Compton are mixes of Black and Latino. The same way that areas of South Houston has that mix.

Culver City is about 60% white. The rest is a good mix of all the races.

Im sorry dude, but throwing LA under the bus to make Houston look good doesnt hold water with me.

You can't deny the fact though that LA has had a LONG history of race wars amongst gangs; Situations like those were never that big in Houston. Houston has never been a big city on segregation; There was once a thread on the General US about the most intergrated cities ,Houston was one of the top cities. Many Californians even spoke out about how segregated LA was.

[LAnative10]

Originally Posted by jluke65780

You can't deny the fact though that LA has had a LONG history of race wars amongst gangs; Situations like those were never that big in Houston. Houston has never been a big city on segregation; There was once a thread on the General US about the most intergrated cities ,Houston was one of the top cities. Many Californians even spoke out about how segregated LA was.

Black on Latino racism may have been more of an issue in California, just the way White on Black/Latino racism has been more of an issue in Texas. Pick your poison. Niether is perfect.

Houston has never really had the gang problem that Los Angeles has. Its a part of our history we cant get rid of, but thats irrelevant to which city is more integrated.

And for the record once more, Im not making the argument that Houston is segregated. I dont even think Dallas is segregated (Fort Worth seems to be). But Im talking about which is more integrated. I grew up in an area that was very middle class and consisted of great diversity and harmony among the races (I wish to God we could have afforded to stay there, but we couldnt). And there are lots of areas around LA just like it. Every city (even the almighty Houston) has neighborhoods that are mostly one race. You can point to one of those neighborhoods and say that this city or that city is segregated, while ignoring that most of the city isnt that way at all.

Also since were on the topic, I pose a riddle to you: Can a city be very diverse yet also segregated? The reason I ask is because this list was posted earlier this thread.

http://www.city-data.com/top35.html

It shows Dallas as one of the most diverse cities in the country, yet alot of people love to talk about how segregated it is. Which is it? Also why isnt Houston on the list? I might also draw your attention to the number of communities on the list that are in the LA area.

[worldlyman]

Originally Posted by LAnative10

Let me take this piece by piece.

First off you are over generalizing way too much. Youre cutting LA short. Youre last point is dead wrong.

I guess its time for me to stand up for my home.

There are whitebread neighborhoods in just about every city. River Oaks and Tanglewood most certainly fit that bill. Also, Beverly Hills isnt really that white. The latest estimates put the cities population at about 40% Persian. For those of you who have been there, you shouldnt be the least bit surprised. If I had to pick a white bread place in LA, it would be Santa Monica, and Manhattan and Hermosa Beaches.

As for Hollywood its made up of tourists, so you cant really go on what you see there. I grew up in LA, Im white, and I absolutely hate Hollywood.

In the San Gabriel Valley, there is a very good mix of white, Asian, and Latino. Its not purely East Asian as you say.

Youre throwing the South Central cities out theyre saying its all one race while neglicting to mention that there are plenty of neighborhoods in Houston that are exactly the same. Inglewood and Compton are mixes of Black and Latino. The same way that areas of South Houston has that mix.

Culver City is about 60% white. The rest is a good mix of all the races.

Im sorry dude, but throwing LA under the bus to make Houston look good doesnt hold water with me.

I'm not throwing LA under the bus...LA being a favorite city of mine. LA was oasis to me when I got bored with San Diego. I love the diversity of N. Hollywood.

But to say that LA is one of the "least segregated" is stretching it too far.

Sure there are mixes of people but at the end of the day, Houston is a more integrated city compared to it. There's a dynamic about Houston where immigrants, foreign and domestic, came in and just started mixing.

There was no time for signs like "No Dogs, Mexicans, Chinks or Filipinos Allowed" such as that existed in California in the 1940s. At about that time, Asians in Houston didn't even have to deal with those types of signs.

The late 1970s were a surging crush of ALL KINDS of folks where people just took up where they wanted. I don't think things were as layered as in LA. What took LA a hundred years to put together in terms of representation probably happened in less than ten as far as Houston is concerned.

Of course, the east side of Houston is dominated by Latinos. Not going to say H-town is perfect but it is more integrated compared to LA. The checkerboard patterns in Houston, due to lack of zoning, are quite more integration friendly than the more hostile reality of geography and topography that really segregate Los Angeles.

Alief and Sharpstown are even more integrated and ethnic funky than Torrance in my opinion.

[jluke65780]

Originally Posted by LAnative10

Black on Latino racism may have been more of an issue in California, just the way White on Black/Latino racism has been more of an issue in Texas. Pick your poison. Niether is perfect.

Houston has never really had the gang problem that Los Angeles has. Its a part of our history we cant get rid of, but thats irrelevant to which city is more integrated.

And for the record once more, Im not making the argument that Houston is segregated. I dont even think Dallas is segregated (Fort Worth seems to be). But Im talking about which is more integrated. I grew up in an area that was very middle class and consisted of great diversity and harmony among the races (I wish to God we could have afforded to stay there, but we couldnt). And there are lots of areas around LA just like it. Every city (even the almighty Houston) has neighborhoods that are mostly one race. You can point to one of those neighborhoods and say that this city or that city is segregated, while ignoring that most of the city isnt that way at all.

Also since were on the topic, I pose a riddle to you: Can a city be very diverse yet also segregated? The reason I ask is because this list was posted earlier this thread.

http://www.city-data.com/top35.html

It shows Dallas as one of the most diverse cities in the country, yet alot of people love to talk about how segregated it is. Which is it? Also why isnt Houston on the list? I might also draw your attention to the number of communities on the list that are in the LA area.

Houston has lots of intergrated neighborhoods. Perhaps you just skimmed over those. The fact that you even try to put LA and the words intergrated throw me off, because LA is not a city known for intergration.

As far as Whites vs. Blacks/Latinos. That was more of a problem in smaller, rural areas. Houston has had its share of hate crimes, but never to the extent of LA.

[The_Fairfaxian]

Sorry to jump into the conversation of this, but I've been intensely following this thread and wanted to ask something that has been boggling me for a long time. I come from the Washington DC area, a place where it's very diverse (on par with LA), but is very racially segregated and covertly racist (with the exceptions of a few towns and suburban-cities). However, my real desire is to move to a place that's very INTEGRATED, regardless of the diversity (or lack thereof). I've been in a college that uses diversity as one of its selling points, but I have never seen so much segregation and ethnocentrism in my life, along with facing excessive racial discrimination from all sides.

If anyone could compare the INTEGRATION (the amount of affable race relations, close friendships and relationships with people from different races, people from different races but share the same cultural outlook, amount and acceptance of interracial couples and families, etc.) between California's major cities, Texas's major cities, and Washington DC, I'd really appreciate it. Not that I haven't done my research and can assume which ones are more INTEGRATED (my guesses are San Diego & Sacramento for CA and Houston & San Antonio for TX), but I just want to hear from people who have actually had experience living and observing the racial climate in these cities as well as that in DC and seeing which one's more healthier.

[LAnative10]

Originally Posted by jluke65780

Houston has lots of intergrated neighborhoods. Perhaps you just skimmed over those. The fact that you even try to put LA and the words intergrated throw me off, because LA is not a city known for intergration.

As far as Whites vs. Blacks/Latinos. That was more of a problem in smaller, rural areas. Houston has had its share of hate crimes, but never to the extent of LA.

Ok, at what point did you hear me say (or see me write) that I thought Houston was segregated? The funny thing is that this started as a which is more integrated between Texas and California and turned into a LA vs. Houston on integration.

Yes I think the LA area is integrated. I lived there for 25 years of my life and thats my opinion and Im not backing down. It can be your opinion that its segregated.

[LAnative10]

Originally Posted by worldlyman

Of course, the east side of Houston is dominated by Latinos. Not going to say H-town is perfect but it is more integrated compared to LA. The checkerboard patterns in Houston, due to lack of zoning, are quite more integration friendly than the more hostile reality of geography and topography that really segregate Los Angeles.

Alief and Sharpstown are even more integrated and ethnic funky than Torrance in my opinion.

I never said I thought Torrance was funky. But I think Torrance is very integrated. Its my hometown and Im very proud of the way the different races and cultures get along there. Its the best Ive seen in the United States.

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by The_Fairfaxian

Sorry to jump into the conversation of this, but I've been intensely following this thread and wanted to ask something that has been boggling me for a long time. I come from the Washington DC area, a place where it's very diverse (on par with LA), but is very racially segregated and covertly racist (with the exceptions of a few towns and suburban-cities). However, my real desire is to move to a place that's very INTEGRATED, regardless of the diversity (or lack thereof). I've been in a college that uses diversity as one of its selling points, but I have never seen so much segregation and ethnocentrism in my life, along with facing excessive racial discrimination from all sides.

If anyone could compare the INTEGRATION (the amount of affable race relations, close friendships and relationships with people from different races, people from different races but share the same cultural outlook, amount and acceptance of interracial couples and families, etc.) between California's major cities, Texas's major cities, and Washington DC, I'd really appreciate it. Not that I haven't done my research and can assume which ones are more INTEGRATED (my guesses are San Diego & Sacramento for CA and Houston & San Antonio for TX), but I just want to hear from people who have actually had experience living and observing the racial climate in these cities as well as that in DC and seeing which one's more healthier.

I can't speak or California or Washington DC, but I can say this, Houston is without a doubt & imo THE most integrated big city in Texas & all of the South.

Second runner up in Texas would be San Antonio as you previously mentioned.

Dallas is only integrated on the east side of town & parts of Oak Cliff. The rest of the city is very segregated, Whites on the north side, Latino on the west side, Blacks on the south side.