CNN political experts: Texas is SouthWest, not Southern. (location, culture)

[getmeoutofhere]

I always thought of Texas as Southern in attitude, Southwestern in location.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere

I always thought of Texas as Southern in attitude, Southwestern in location.

Not a bad description...

Location wise, geographically speaking Texas is as "south" as it is possible to be. Which I guess -- on a map -- would place half of it in the southeast and half in the southwest! LOL But yeah, the dividing line between the "eastern" and "western" US in terms of whole states has usually been generally accepted as the one between Texas and Louisiana, Oklahoma and Arkansas, Kansas and Missouri, etc up to the Canadian border. So the actual location aspect makes sense in that regard.

[WillysB]

I think perhaps the 'generally accepted' depends on who is doing the accepting. I have that line going south as far as the Red River then going west to the east line of the Texas panhandle then southwest to Mexico.

It's attitude would depend on 'he who has the attitude'.

Why do people find it necessary to nit pick this thing.

[TX_AGGIE13]

I'd have to say that CNN politicians labeling Texas as Southwest, not Southern is just outsiders trying to put their 2 cents in about what they think and kinda silly. If your from Texas you should know that Texas can't be placed in a Demographic, or Regoionaly Geographic label like that. It's just too darn BIG! Im from Deep East Texas and it is as Southern as anywhere. I live in San Antonio and the Hill country and certain areas are just simply put "Texas", and then all the way to El Paso, Lubbock, Abilene, deffinately Southwest. They should just call this region of the Nation Texas, and nothing else. Just look at the US regional power grids, that explains it all!

[Mark Senior]

Ok, I've lived in Tyler or Houston my entire, now long, life. The Tyler Area and to the East, I consider Southern. Yet, Texas, I consider Southwestern. So for me, East Texas is Southern, more like Mississippi or Alabama. Sure, there are a bunch of "wanabe" cowboys around with there pickum' up trucks.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Mark-Tyler is Special

Ok, I've lived in Tyler or Houston my entire, now long, life. The Tyler Area and to the East, I consider Southern. Yet, Texas, I consider Southwestern. So for me, East Texas is Southern, more like Mississippi or Alabama. Sure, there are a bunch of "wanabe" cowboys around with there pickum' up trucks.

East Texas is certainly Southern in the sense most often applied when considering the term. And parts of it where the true Deep South begins...containing many of those old "romantic" Old South characteristics.

So far as Southwestern goes? While it be can be aptly applied to much of Texas, the problem is exactly what is actually meant by the appellation, and how the state fits into it.

It can mean the desert or interior southwestern states of New Mexico and Arizona and certain other parts of the true West (in which case the only part of Texas that really fits would be the trans-pecos region).

However, it can also mean (as it originally did) the western states of the larger South, a designation that changed in tandem with migration into the western territories of the southern tier, finally stopping in Texas. Within that context, it can be further limited to apply to westernmost parts of those states which have a strong post-bellum history and culture (i.e. western parts of Texas).

As concerns most of Texas, if Southwest means the "western South" as per above, then it is quite accurate. That is, where general Southern history and culture also contain many aspects of the post-bellum western frontier. In fact, I would venture to say this is one of the things that makes Texas unique and different.

Here are two good maps which illustrate this. They come from Raymond Gastils great work "Cultural Regions of the United States".

This one shows the whole of the country: http://faculty.smu.edu/RKEMPER/anth_...al_Regions.jpg

While this one is limited to the "South" itself:

http://faculty.smu.edu/RKEMPER/anth_..._Districts.jpg

Note that far sections of East Texas fall with the "Eastern South" sub-region, while the El Paso area is classified with the "Interior Southwest".

Just a final FWIW, while I personally think "the South" map includes too much of Missouri and don't agree with Delaware's inclusion at all (although yes, this area is outlined as being a "special area"), IMHO (operative term, of course! LOL), there is not a lot to disagree with. It's most important feature is that it articulates that the South is not a single monolithic entity, but one divided into sub-regions and then into districts which share certain commonalities of history that in turn distinguish the whole from other regions of the country.

[lonestar2007]

Originally Posted by txguy2009

they were talking about Southerners being offended b/c Obama hasn't appointed any Southerners, and the guy was like while TX isn't Southern, the democrat former mayor of Dallas is on the short list. He said TX was southwest so it wouldn't do much to placate southerners.

Seriously, why do you care? This seems to have become such a consuming issue with you and it is really hard to figure out why. Travel Texas yourself and then tell me that you are able to fit her into a slot. When you talk to Texans you're going to get the different answers, this might be a result from where in Texas they were raised and how they were raised or maybe it will be answered with regards as to where they live in Texas now. When the natives are not even able to define Texas into one category, which seems to be what you want to hear, why on earth are you expecting someone from CNN, who might live God knows where, to do so. You not going to fit Texas into your one-size-fits-all hatbox. Sorry, but you really should quit trying. That dog ain't gonna hunt, sonny.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by lonestar2007

Seriously, why do you care? This seems to have become such a consuming issue with you and it is really hard to figure out why. Travel Texas yourself and then tell me that you are able to fit her into a slot. When you talk to Texans you're going to get the different answers, this might be a result from where in Texas they were raised and how they were raised or maybe it will be answered with regards as to where they live in Texas now. When the natives are not even able to define Texas into one category, which seems to be what you want to hear, why on earth are you expecting someone from CNN, who might live God knows where, to do so. You not going to fit Texas into your one-size-fits-all hatbox. Sorry, but you really should quit trying. That dog ain't gonna hunt, sonny.

THANKS so for this post, LoneStar2007! I confess it also give me an opening to say a few things on the topic....

It is no secret to those on this board who "know me" that I not only consider myself a proud native Texan but a proud Southerner as well...and feel no contradiction whatsover between the two. Further, that I consider Texas to be essentially a Southern state and think I can back this up with valid research as per facts of our history and basic culture. I hasten to add this is not to dismiss all those who say different and provide counter-point evidence/experience/observations. That is one of the really "neato" things about the Texas forum and the Texas friends on here...that we can respectfully discuss/debate without it becoming personal...

Anyway, yes, I am the first to admit that regional studies as concerns Texas/South is -- and always has been -- a special area of interest/facination for me. And I don't think I am so blind as to not realize that many of my friends consider me obscessed with the subject. Hell, why deny the obvious?! LOL

At the same time though, I THINK I can honestly say that I have tried very hard -- for quite a while in fact -- to avoid starting threads which will once more inflame that old "beaten totally to death" topic of whether or not Texas is "Southern". Oh sure, if it comes up directly in thus oriented theads, then I will argue passionately it IS. Also, in incidental threads related to certain aspects of Texas culture I will mention and bring up the "Southern" connection. Because it is there and it is real. Most of Texas culture cannot be seperated from its Southern origins and roots...

With all that said though, and trying to come the full circle to the point? Like you, LoneStar, I wonder why in the hell this poster keeps bringing this topic up? It doesn't take rocket science to get the hint that most of us are simple tired of this subect and that it will never get settled even if we weren't (just like the larger question of "what states are Southern" will forever remain debatable).

Nothing at all wrong with the subject per se being brought up. In and of itself it is dammed interesting! However, sometimes one has to translate the way it is brought up as to intent of the OP. For instance, the number of times it is within a certain period of time and -- maybe most relevant of all -- how it just keeps "re-inventing" itself under different titles! Because of it, all I can figure is that the OP just wants to be provocative, or else gets a perverse kick out of stirring up coals that have long been just mutually -- even if silently -- agreed upon to be left to rest a bit...fer gosh sakes...

In fact, ever notice how he starts these type threads...then seldom says much afterwards? Reminds me of the kid we all knew back in elementary school...the one who thought it great fun to intentionally provoke a fight between others, enjoy it, secretly consider themselves superior for being able to bring it about...and yet kept their own clothes nice and starchy...

[lonestar2007]

You nailed it Reb, and yet we keep getting sucked back in.

[Exult.Q36]

Aw well im black dude from Fort Worth and my grandfather side came from marshall Texas (east Texas), and my grandmother came from Flordia and my dad side reside in Georgia. Hmmm I wonder what that makes me lol. I guess I am from the southwest lol get out here. Texas is as south as it get from East Fort worth down the I 35 corrdior eastward. Im sure the state that has the 3rd largest black population in U.S. would agree.