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Waitaminute. Did you just say that anyone who thinks that an empire built on force may not be the best thing to promote a free society is scientifically and measurably "backward" and therefore too ignorant to procreate?
So, people who like freedom *from* government are too dumb to reproduce?
And in addition, you imply that people who refuse to embrace a system that has shown its corruption and refuse to vote for politicians they feel are corrupt and do not represent them are, "misguided, unpatriotic, baseless, lazy, and incompetent"? Right?
I just want to make sure I understand exactly the meaning you couched in all that pretty prose.
Your remarks about "promote a free society", "too ignorant to procreate" and "too dumb to reproduce" are an interesting spin on what was blogged. Not sure if those comments are steering the debate somewhere else entirely.
Name an empire of great magnitude in history that came to being without some level of chaos and violent demonstration in its inception AND does not perpetuate its existence for centuries based on some level of centralized policy and militia.
Name a group in the U.S. who wants "freedom from government" who is not promoting some level of social/political imbalance, special interest, radical separatism, occult, anarchy or just plain unnecessarily imposing their own brand of corrupt thinking on others.
The blog is about secession. Secession would result in trading in your current perceived level of government corruption for more of the same under a different political infrastructure that will have many of the same circumstantial problems that we face as humans.
"Ignorance" comes from not understanding ourselves as human beings to the point of destroying everything we fought for - from a ‘standard of living’ to being completely self-destructive entirely.
"Backwards thinking" comes from isolating ourselves by taking on primitive pride-based separatist views that, if ever taken seriously, would reverse what we have fought for, invested in, and worked to build as a country.
There may come a time when this kind of thinking may be the best for all of us, but there is NO substantiation for it now.
If you don’t like the laws and actions of the government, then become a lawmaker yourself at that level of government. What is keeping YOU from really making a difference if you are so discontent? Why not just move to Mexico?
Relax there 'reb, didn't mean to upset you. I was just posing some questions to those who, in theory, maintain subjective viewpoints about their state.
You didn't "upset" me, CF. In fact, I hope I didn't come across too brusque. However, your extreme verbosity, it seems, leads you to confuse it with clarity and articulateness. Your points in all this are often only vaugely discernable.
BTW -- "subjective viewpoints about their state?" All viewpoints about ones state, country, etc, are subjective.
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However, no one has yet taken the time to answer any of them, really.
Maybe because you aren't really asking any questions, but are carrying on a monologue...?
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And if you aren't truly aren't even remotely promoting the idea of political/social separation or secession, then I am wondering what you are debating or defending in a blog about state secession.
This is a thread, not a blog. But as it may be, perhaps, you don't see anything because you are too engaged in writing a wordy dissertation which prevents you from seeing anything but your own vision of the world.
As it is, this is a thread on a forum in which people exchange ideas/opinions/disagreement/viewpoints/etc on a subject started by a poster. Such often wanders off on tangents. To reply doesn't necessarily mean ones agrees with the said original post. Or any subsequent. I would think this would be clear to even the most obtuse amongst us.
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I would surmise you are defending texas only because you are proud of your state and are following the traditional home-grown thinking of your predecessors. There is nothing wrong with this, but it seems your beliefs are based on empirically unsound views and that you stand AGAINST your country instead of WITH your country. Your language really does give you away. It shows your ideas are founded on ambivalence toward others living in the very country that grants you the freedom to speak out against it. I doubt you are truly anti-secessionist, sorry.
You can surmise all you like, but the more I read you, the more difficult it is to take your posts as anything more than a lengthy term paper with nothing of real substance to say. Or a concrete position taken.
Moving on though, this "your language gives you away" statement. It implies I need disguse some secret agenda. Sorry, it won't work. My open position on all this long predates your entry onto this forum. And it hasn't varied. Bottom line is, if I advocated secession, I would leave no room for ambiguity on the matter. Much less feel a need to cloak it to you or anyone else.
"Ambivalence" toward others living in this country? Who are exactly, since you seem to have pre-determined my own feelings toward my country, are these "others"? Be more specific. But before you do, look in the mirror and justify your own seeming ambivilance toward your fellow countrymen who do not adopt your own vision of the world.
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Americans need to remember, they live in a free country comparatively in this world, not a regime, dictatorship, elitist movement as some of us may have been told to think by the personally malcontent few around us.
That's right. And the price of that freedom is eternal vigilance, correct?
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don’t mean to sound derogatory, but, ‘reb, you seem to only concern yourself with minutia and are blind to common sense.
I took this quote out of the rest simply because it made me laugh out loud. The use of the term munutia seems quite strange coming from one who can't seem to pause long enough to concisely address any of it. You seem to get so carried away with your self-perceived eloquence, that it blinds you to even a common sensical use of the meaning of "common sense" I've really yet to see anywhere when you really engage others in a semblence of true discussion/debate. Instead, you invariably launch off with a rambling treatise, the particulars of which, to be honest, I have read -- even if slightly differently worded -- on many other websites and blogs.
A word to the wise is always sufficient. One don't impress with wordiness, and certainly not by talking past others by such. I say that in the spirit of good will.
BTW -- may I ask what you do for a living? No need for personal details, but just wondering...
Texans don't have the brain power to pull it off. Their pride, overconfidence, and hubris (without the intellect to back it up) would lead them to failure. And what kind of military would they have?
Do any of you Texans out there think that one day TX would secede from the Union? Is that just a lot of hoo hah from a small group, or could it be a reality?
Most definitely a lot of "hoo hah from a small group". I'm sure there'll be more hoo-hah to come.
Texans don't have the brain power to pull it off. Their pride, overconfidence, and hubris (without the intellect to back it up) would lead them to failure. And what kind of military would they have?
So, you're saying that ALL 23 million Texans are dumb? Not that I agree with secession. I don't, never have, never will... but to try and claim Texans are dumber (or smarter for that matter) as a general populace than any other state is pretty weak and ignorant.
Your remarks about "promote a free society", "too ignorant to procreate" and "too dumb to reproduce" are an interesting spin on what was blogged. Not sure if those comments are steering the debate somewhere else entirely.
Your insults are interesting interpretation of people who have different opinions than you.
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Name an empire of great magnitude in history that came to being without some level of chaos and violent demonstration in its inception AND does not perpetuate its existence for centuries based on some level of centralized policy and militia.
Name an empire that does that does not collapse into brutal tyranny and ignominy.
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Name a group in the U.S. who wants "freedom from government" who is not promoting some level of social/political imbalance, special interest, radical separatism, occult, anarchy or just plain unnecessarily imposing their own brand of corrupt thinking on others.
Libertarians. But you knew I would say that. And I'm sure you have a pithy belittling response for them. Note: I'm not a Libertarian, but I understand their principals and they see exactly what you mention.
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The blog is about secession. Secession would result in trading in your current perceived level of government corruption for more of the same under a different political infrastructure that will have many of the same circumstantial problems that we face as humans.
My response was to clarify the apparent insults to others who believe in smaller, lesser government than you. Wrapping them in verbosity doesn't remove the insult.
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"Ignorance" comes from not understanding ourselves as human beings to the point of destroying everything we fought for - from a ‘standard of living’ to being completely self-destructive entirely.
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"Backwards thinking" comes from isolating ourselves by taking on primitive pride-based separatist views that, if ever taken seriously, would reverse what we have fought for, invested in, and worked to build as a country.
And yet you claimed such "backward thinking" is empirical. What measurements did you use to verify it? Do you genuinely believe that all who disagree with you are "backwards"? Lemmings the most intelligent beings in the universe? Just because you are happiest in the middle of the herd doesn't mean it's right for everyone.
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There may come a time when this kind of thinking may be the best for all of us, but there is NO substantiation for it now.
And how would anyone, including you, know this, unless there were people thinking it and trying it? And how would the time come for it to *be* the right thinking if no one is trying it?
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If you don’t like the laws and actions of the government, then become a lawmaker yourself at that level of government. What is keeping YOU from really making a difference if you are so discontent? Why not just move to Mexico?
What if, as much as I may not like you imposing your will through force on me, I equally do not want to impose my will on you?
What if, as you suggest, moving to Mexico is not something I want to do? Are you one of those types who believes in forceful deportation of people who are not patriotic "enough"? Why go through all the expense of deporting me? Just set up a "work camp" and "rehabilitate" me through some good old-fashioned hard work!
Collectivist nationalism is, historically, very dangerous.
So, you're saying that ALL 23 million Texans are dumb? Not that I agree with secession. I don't, never have, never will... but to try and claim Texans are dumber (or smarter for that matter) as a general populace than any other state is pretty weak and ignorant.
If they re-elect Rick Perry based on his grandstanding yesterday then, yes, you could argue that Texans are a dumb lot because he's spent the last 9 years doing the very things he was protesting.
Great Point sometimes I wonder about my texans thinking processes and why they do certain things like Rick Perry.
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Originally Posted by bluescreen73
If they re-elect Rick Perry based on his grandstanding yesterday then, yes, you could argue that Texans are a dumb lot because he's spent the last 9 years doing the very things he was protesting.
The Union is Perpetual. Once your ancestors decided to become a part of it there was no leaving it. The Civil War or War between the States decided all of that. End of Story.
Wrong, the 10th Amendment reserves the power of secession to the states (as it is not prohibited). Furthermore, a "perpetual union" would stand in direct contrast to what our founding fathers believed in. Read the Declaration of Independence sometime...you think the people who wrote that and seceded from Britain would deny the right of the people to secede again in the future?
You didn't "upset" me, CF. In fact, I hope I didn't come across too brusque. However, your extreme verbosity, it seems, leads you to confuse it with clarity and articulateness. Your points in all this are often only vaugely discernable.
BTW -- "subjective viewpoints about their state?" All viewpoints about ones state, country, etc, are subjective.
Maybe because you aren't really asking any questions, but are carrying on a monologue...?
This is a thread, not a blog. But as it may be, perhaps, you don't see anything because you are too engaged in writing a wordy dissertation which prevents you from seeing anything but your own vision of the world.
As it is, this is a thread on a forum in which people exchange ideas/opinions/disagreement/viewpoints/etc on a subject started by a poster. Such often wanders off on tangents. To reply doesn't necessarily mean ones agrees with the said original post. Or any subsequent. I would think this would be clear to even the most obtuse amongst us.
You can surmise all you like, but the more I read you, the more difficult it is to take your posts as anything more than a lengthy term paper with nothing of real substance to say. Or a concrete position taken.
Moving on though, this "your language gives you away" statement. It implies I need disguse some secret agenda. Sorry, it won't work. My open position on all this long predates your entry onto this forum. And it hasn't varied. Bottom line is, if I advocated secession, I would leave no room for ambiguity on the matter. Much less feel a need to cloak it to you or anyone else.
"Ambivalence" toward others living in this country? Who are exactly, since you seem to have pre-determined my own feelings toward my country, are these "others"? Be more specific. But before you do, look in the mirror and justify your own seeming ambivilance toward your fellow countrymen who do not adopt your own vision of the world.
That's right. And the price of that freedom is eternal vigilance, correct?
I took this quote out of the rest simply because it made me laugh out loud. The use of the term munutia seems quite strange coming from one who can't seem to pause long enough to concisely address any of it. You seem to get so carried away with your self-perceived eloquence, that it blinds you to even a common sensical use of the meaning of "common sense" I've really yet to see anywhere when you really engage others in a semblence of true discussion/debate. Instead, you invariably launch off with a rambling treatise, the particulars of which, to be honest, I have read -- even if slightly differently worded -- on many other websites and blogs.
A word to the wise is always sufficient. One don't impress with wordiness, and certainly not by talking past others by such. I say that in the spirit of good will.
BTW -- may I ask what you do for a living? No need for personal details, but just wondering...
C'mon there, Tex! Why do you tend to concentrate and respond only to the style and delivery of my writing? I am asking you to debate against the content of what is being conveyed to you in the blog, thread, ...whatever. Also, do you actually have an expectation for me to write in a style like yours or, perhaps, think like you do too? (these questions are posed to articulate thoughts behind a theory, not to sound incendiary)
Anyway, here is another way of articulating myself: I hold theories about why Americans who are secessionist-minded think like they do in the first place. Luckily, I get to articulate these theories in the manner I see best to a diverse audience, unlike in others who might live in communist or restrictive regime-based country. You see, you and I are participating in a constitutional right that grants us freedom of speech or expression. In these discussions repeated substantiation against secession based on statehood legislation, law, rights, etc. has been belabored and really is a dead horse.
I am sorry to use what appears to be some strong language. Some like to think I am saying "Yer all a bunch a 'gol dang dumb arses". This is not true and is just an example of jumping to conclusions. What I'm asking for is, a rebuttal from the secessionist-minded Americans to theories that their mindset is based solely on socialized pride-based and antiquated sentiment and a belief system that perpetuates emotions/feelings of separation and segregation among people of their own ilk - even within their own free country. Help me understand why this is not the case. I don't have a kind word to describe why the few (not the many) would ever describe this republic like it was some kind of tyrannous monarchy.
Now, this is where it sounds like I'm just plain asking for too much: Why don't the secessionist-minded folks go work toward reforming their country in the places that hold power to fix all these perceived issues? Why don't they do this instead of trying to promote separation instead of unity?
I am from the American South (born/raised/live). I enjoy my freedoms as an American in what is still a comparatively free country and I do not take them for granted. I believe that secessionist-minded folks have the very same aggressive tendencies as those who they pontificate against as though they themselves are not among the self-righteous. That is all you need to know there, 'reb.
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But as it may be, perhaps, you don't see anything because you are too engaged in writing a wordy dissertation which prevents you from seeing anything but your own vision of the world. 
