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Secession is a term and a concept that holds various and differing connotations to many individuals. It is an idea seldom thought about by most Americans in our day. Those that have some familiarity with the term generally associate it primarily with the War of 1861-1865. To the majority the concept of secession is a far away notion, little understood and even less thought of as a practical concept applicable to our current political arrangement. After all, most Americans believe that whatever secession was all about the issue must have been settled when the forces of the Union defeated the South.
This treatment of secession is one dimensional and flawed. Most Americans would agree that it is impossible, nay unjust, to settle matters of legal principle through the use of force. On the schoolyard we do not reward the bully that is stronger than his fellows by accepting that his point of view must be right just because he is stronger. We do not accept this in our system of civil law. A mere individual with a right and just cause can and often does prevail against large and powerful corporations on points of justice and legality. It seems un-American to simply accept that a question as powerful as the nature of the compact that holds the Union together might be answered in no other way than force.
The commonplace view of secession is also flawed in that the idea is generally applied only to the South and the Southern political mind. This treatment of secession denies the fact that our very independence from the British Crown was a result of secession. It also ignores the principles expressed in the founding documents and the words and thoughts of those that shaped our early history. Finally this line of thought also ignores the fact that secession was first proposed not in the South but in New England. Secession is as American as apple pie. The first American Patriots were secessionist and throughout our history men that understood the primary nature of the federal compact supported the principle of secession. [SIZE=4]A Summary of the Nature and Role of Government[/SIZE]
Man is by necessity a social creature. It has been thus since the dawn of man. We banded together in small hunter-gatherer groups in prehistoric times, we built tribal communities and over time developed the system of government that gave rise to the modern nation state. Government is the guarantor of greater peace, tranquility and health than might otherwise be obtainable. It serves to protect property and rights; its does not grant or create them.
John C. Calhoun in his Disquisition on Government viewed the institution of government as; "although intended to protect and preserve society, has itself a strong tendency to disorder and abuse its powers, as all experience and almost every page of history testify.”
What then are we to make of this fearful beast that we rely on so heavily. How might a people make government a servant of their needs and avoid becoming servants of the government itself? John Ponet in 1556 argued that the power of any ruler is not absolute but is constrained by natural law. Christopher Goodman in 1558 expanded on the ideas of Ponet and argued that The People were not required to obey unjust rulers in every circumstance. These thoughts and those of others combined to bring an end to the concept of the divine right of kings. Our tradition of political thought in the West is heavily influenced by the idea that no government retains absolute right to rule. Read more... [SIZE=4]A Brief Primer on the Origin, Nature and Role of the Federal Compact[/SIZE]
It is pointless to discuss the justness of the principle of secession without first discussing our federal compact. Our thoughts on the perpetuity of the Federal Union have been continually reinforced since 1892 by items like the Pledge of Allegiance with the "indivisible" phrase (never mind that the Pledge itself was written by a socialist with grand ideas of a Socialist Utopia in the US based upon very un-American ideals). US history as taught in most US schools only adds to the confusion and misunderstanding concerning the true nature of the federal compact as envisioned by those who created the nation. Read More... [SIZE=4]The Undeniable Legality of Secession[/SIZE]
At the most fundamental and basic level of our political belief system as Americans rests the idea that men ought to be free to determine their own form of government. Our Declaration of Independence states this fact clearly:
...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...
Few Americans would deny that our founders in 1776 had among other inalienable rights the justification and right to assert a form of government "most likely to effect Safety and Happiness". With such a strong sense of the rights of the people inherent in our most foundational of beliefs, it is amazing that Americans so easily view these concepts as applicable only to another time and place.
[SIZE=2]Secession is legal under natural law, biblical law and in accordance with the State-Federal compact theory of government. [/SIZE] [SIZE=4]The Unconstitutionality of Using Force to Coerce a State[/SIZE]
President James Buchanan stated succinctly in a speech before Congress, December 1860 that the Constitution does not delegate to the Federal government the power to use force against a state:
"The question fairly stated is, Has the Constitution delegated to Congress the power to coerce a State into submission which is attempting to withdraw or has actually withdrawn from the Confederacy? If answered in the affirmative, it must be on the principle that the power has been conferred upon Congress to declare and to make war against a State. After much serious reflection I have arrived at the conclusion that no such power has been delegated to Congress or to any other department of the Federal Government. It is manifest upon an inspection of the Constitution that this is not among the specific and enumerated powers granted to Congress, and it is equally apparent that its exercise is not " necessary and proper for carrying into execution " any one of these powers. So far from this power having been delegated to Congress, it was expressly refused by the Convention which framed the Constitution."
Secession is a term and a concept that holds various and differing connotations to many individuals. It is an idea seldom thought about by most Americans in our day. Those that have some familiarity with the term generally associate it primarily with the War of 1861-1865. To the majority the concept of secession is a far away notion, little understood and even less thought of as a practical concept applicable to our current political arrangement. After all, most Americans believe that whatever secession was all about the issue must have been settled when the forces of the Union defeated the South.
This treatment of secession is one dimensional and flawed. Most Americans would agree that it is impossible, nay unjust, to settle matters of legal principle through the use of force. On the schoolyard we do not reward the bully that is stronger than his fellows by accepting that his point of view must be right just because he is stronger. We do not accept this in our system of civil law. A mere individual with a right and just cause can and often does prevail against large and powerful corporations on points of justice and legality. It seems un-American to simply accept that a question as powerful as the nature of the compact that holds the Union together might be answered in no other way than force.
The commonplace view of secession is also flawed in that the idea is generally applied only to the South and the Southern political mind. This treatment of secession denies the fact that our very independence from the British Crown was a result of secession. It also ignores the principles expressed in the founding documents and the words and thoughts of those that shaped our early history. Finally this line of thought also ignores the fact that secession was first proposed not in the South but in New England. Secession is as American as apple pie. The first American Patriots were secessionist and throughout our history men that understood the primary nature of the federal compact supported the principle of secession. [SIZE=4]A Summary of the Nature and Role of Government[/SIZE]
Man is by necessity a social creature. It has been thus since the dawn of man. We banded together in small hunter-gatherer groups in prehistoric times, we built tribal communities and over time developed the system of government that gave rise to the modern nation state. Government is the guarantor of greater peace, tranquility and health than might otherwise be obtainable. It serves to protect property and rights; its does not grant or create them.
John C. Calhoun in his Disquisition on Government viewed the institution of government as; "although intended to protect and preserve society, has itself a strong tendency to disorder and abuse its powers, as all experience and almost every page of history testify.”
What then are we to make of this fearful beast that we rely on so heavily. How might a people make government a servant of their needs and avoid becoming servants of the government itself? John Ponet in 1556 argued that the power of any ruler is not absolute but is constrained by natural law. Christopher Goodman in 1558 expanded on the ideas of Ponet and argued that The People were not required to obey unjust rulers in every circumstance. These thoughts and those of others combined to bring an end to the concept of the divine right of kings. Our tradition of political thought in the West is heavily influenced by the idea that no government retains absolute right to rule. Read more... [SIZE=4]A Brief Primer on the Origin, Nature and Role of the Federal Compact[/SIZE]
It is pointless to discuss the justness of the principle of secession without first discussing our federal compact. Our thoughts on the perpetuity of the Federal Union have been continually reinforced since 1892 by items like the Pledge of Allegiance with the "indivisible" phrase (never mind that the Pledge itself was written by a socialist with grand ideas of a Socialist Utopia in the US based upon very un-American ideals). US history as taught in most US schools only adds to the confusion and misunderstanding concerning the true nature of the federal compact as envisioned by those who created the nation. Read More... [SIZE=4]The Undeniable Legality of Secession[/SIZE]
At the most fundamental and basic level of our political belief system as Americans rests the idea that men ought to be free to determine their own form of government. Our Declaration of Independence states this fact clearly:
...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...
Few Americans would deny that our founders in 1776 had among other inalienable rights the justification and right to assert a form of government "most likely to effect Safety and Happiness". With such a strong sense of the rights of the people inherent in our most foundational of beliefs, it is amazing that Americans so easily view these concepts as applicable only to another time and place.
[SIZE=2]Secession is legal under natural law, biblical law and in accordance with the State-Federal compact theory of government. [/SIZE] [SIZE=4]The Unconstitutionality of Using Force to Coerce a State[/SIZE]
President James Buchanan stated succinctly in a speech before Congress, December 1860 that the Constitution does not delegate to the Federal government the power to use force against a state:
"The question fairly stated is, Has the Constitution delegated to Congress the power to coerce a State into submission which is attempting to withdraw or has actually withdrawn from the Confederacy? If answered in the affirmative, it must be on the principle that the power has been conferred upon Congress to declare and to make war against a State. After much serious reflection I have arrived at the conclusion that no such power has been delegated to Congress or to any other department of the Federal Government. It is manifest upon an inspection of the Constitution that this is not among the specific and enumerated powers granted to Congress, and it is equally apparent that its exercise is not " necessary and proper for carrying into execution " any one of these powers. So far from this power having been delegated to Congress, it was expressly refused by the Convention which framed the Constitution."
It is amazing how people like you assume that someone who doesn't like Obama likes Bush. Bush did some really stupid things in office; however, the idea that the entire economic crisis is his fault is crazy.
Well, The economy was the strongest that it had ever been under Bill Clinton and If I'm not mistaken, We had a surplus of cash. Bush takes office and by his second term we were billions in debt and the economy took a nose dive.
Obviously, Not everyone voted for GWB however, This is the Texas forum and chances are atleast 9 of 10 people on this forum voted for Bush and from many of the replies posted on this forum, I would believe that many posters also voted for McCain.
I'm sure it's not the case where you're from in DFW but you would (or maybe wouldn't) be supprised to hear about the number of people that WOULD have voted democrat in the election but said they would vote for a crotchety John McCain then a black man. Many people "behind closed doors" say they voted against Obama because he's black but use their " He's a socialist " reply in public to hide their racism. Again, Not saying everyone but You would be supprised what some dumb rednecks say to just anyone when they think they're around, quote " their own kind. "
Texans seem pretty annoyed with illegals. Texans seem to also be annoyed with everything being made and manufactured in China.
What do you think the U.S. would do to Texas if Texas decided it wanted to seceed ? Embargo ? Sanctions ?
Who would Texas have to swap goods with ? Mexico ? China ?
Do Texans really want to have to pay international taxes and shipping rates from things from the U.S. ? IF the U.S. allowed things to be shipped to Texas ?
I'm sure the U.S. Government would likley consider a Texas secession as treason.
If Texas were to seceed I would probably not move to the State and even If I lived there and 10 years from now they seceeded I would leave then. I would rather be an American and not have to deal with being a thrid world country which is what Texas would become without Federal money. Hopefully, In the event that it DOES happen, All the gun nuts and right wing extremeists and hate groups flood into Texas and leave the U.S.
Here you go with the race card. You so called Americans turned Socialist seem to not be able to handle the facts when they are put in front of you. All you have is Racism and George W. Bush to fight back with,that is not really a whole lot. I really do not care if they are black or white. I care if they are a True & Honest Americans. Stop placing the hyphen in the middle of what you are, such as Mexican-American,Afro-American and start calling your self an American and be proud that you believe in God,Country & The U.S. Constitution and what it stands for. As for what you call gun nuts,majority of Americans own firearms so I guess Texas would be well armed if they came here. I am not prejudice,I just do not like rear ends. If you do not like us God fearing,well armed Americans or Texans then why not go to Russia,China or Iran where the Government will really take care of you in more ways than one and good riddens with all of you Socialist.
It sounds like TNRyan23 seems to think he knows everything but he still is not facing the facts or does not want here the facts. The one who talks more about Racism is usually a Racist themselves. Yes I do not like illegals because they are illegally in this country and are breaking the law and if that is racist then so be it. (There are more states than Texas wanting to secede.)
ROLL YOUR SLEEVES UP,LET THE BATTLE BEGIN GOD BLESS TEXAS & OUR MILITARY
Well, The economy was the strongest that it had ever been under Bill Clinton and If I'm not mistaken, We had a surplus of cash. Bush takes office and by his second term we were billions in debt and the economy took a nose dive.
Obviously, Not everyone voted for GWB however, This is the Texas forum and chances are atleast 9 of 10 people on this forum voted for Bush and from many of the replies posted on this forum, I would believe that many posters also voted for McCain.
I'm sure it's not the case where you're from in DFW but you would (or maybe wouldn't) be supprised to hear about the number of people that WOULD have voted democrat in the election but said they would vote for a crotchety John McCain then a black man. Many people "behind closed doors" say they voted against Obama because he's black but use their " He's a socialist " reply in public to hide their racism. Again, Not saying everyone but You would be supprised what some dumb rednecks say to just anyone when they think they're around, quote " their own kind. "
Barack Obama was the most liberal member of the Senate according to non-partisan reports and John McCain was the guy with the more conservative voting record. People voted for McCain because of this.
Location: Back and forth between OTP and ITP Sandy Springs
222 posts, read 127,014 times
Reputation: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrsgun
Socialism is Government run Business,Government run Health Care and whatever else the Goverment can take over and run. It seems that Barrack Hussein Obama is doing all this and then some. I would not disrespect Old Glory for this United Socialist States Of America and fly it. I will fly it for our military who are our true Americans which are fighting to keep us free but that is all. BarrackHussein Obama is doing the opposite. If you are so intent to call the Secret Service then do not forget to call the CIA, FBI etc. You might get a big surprise.If anyone is radical it is you TnRyan23,Stephanie P.,Sandy Springs Rep., Fullback32 etc. If you are willing to support a man that is trying to destroy this country by destroying the U.S. Constitution which our fore fathers formed to protect us from the likes of Barrack Hussein Obama and his followers which seems to be ya'll, then maybe we need to run a check on ya'll as a threat to what is left of America. I have a mind of my own, I have not been brain washed by the likes of your kind or Barrack Hussein Obama. Our Military is out dyin for you to have those freedoms and you want to give it all away for BarrackHussein Obama. As for the Texas Constitution it was built from the U.S. Constitution that is why it was included with the oath to the U.S. Constitution.
God Bless Texas & The Military,Law Enforcement and anyone else who is willing to risk their lives for what this country and what it actually stands for God ,Freedom & Liberty
Never Give Up! Remember the Alamo,Pearl Harbor & 9/11!
Socialism is Government run Business,Government run Health Care and whatever else the Goverment can take over and run. It seems that Barrack Hussein Obama is doing all this and then some. I would not disrespect Old Glory for this United Socialist States Of America and fly it. I will fly it for our military who are our true Americans which are fighting to keep us free but that is all. BarrackHussein Obama is doing the opposite. If you are so intent to call the Secret Service then do not forget to call the CIA, FBI etc. You might get a big surprise.If anyone is radical it is you TnRyan23,Stephanie P.,Sandy Springs Rep., Fullback32 etc. If you are willing to support a man that is trying to destroy this country by destroying the U.S. Constitution which our fore fathers formed to protect us from the likes of Barrack Hussein Obama and his followers which seems to be ya'll, then maybe we need to run a check on ya'll as a threat to what is left of America. I have a mind of my own, I have not been brain washed by the likes of your kind or Barrack Hussein Obama. Our Military is out dyin for you to have those freedoms and you want to give it all away for BarrackHussein Obama. As for the Texas Constitution it was built from the U.S. Constitution that is why it was included with the oath to the U.S. Constitution.
God Bless Texas & The Military,Law Enforcement and anyone else who is willing to risk their lives for what this country and what it actually stands for God ,Freedom & Liberty
Never Give Up! Remember the Alamo,Pearl Harbor & 9/11!
SaladoSam,that gentleman could not have said it any better,but as you will see in the next Socialist's that responds to this and at that video, will stay blind, as he well said in the video. They can not respond with facts because all Barack Hussein Obama is to them is their Savior & they believe in his lies. All they can respond to with is Racist & George W. Bush. They can not see beyond Barack Hussein Obama or even see thru him because he is their Idol.
ROLL YOUR SLEEVES UP AND LET THE BATTLE BEGIN GOD BLESS TEXAS & THE MILITARY
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Welcome to City-Data.com forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with 700,000 other registered members. User profiles and some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your free account you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 15,000 posts/day about local topics and you will see fewer ads. 
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