Texas Education Anyone? (Houston: high school, college, taxes)

[DoomedRepeat]

There is a process by which new evidence and theories make into the Scientific community for debate and testing and then after much scrutiny to something like a textbook. As I said earlier, I saw a debate among highly trained and educated men about what the ID and creationism people want to provide as taught along side evolution. When asked what the ID theory is, the response was something like don't know, but that Darwin is wrong. That isn't enough to skip the methods by which new science and revision of current theory works. No one is upset that Darwin can be proven wrong. They are upset that something which hasn't passed the same scrutiny Darwin went through wants to circumvent the process. You Texans should also know that faith and science, or reason, is not an all or nothing game. Many people including very religious persons have no problem with evolution or astronomy or any other science and their faith. In fact the record of science happens to be on of very spiritual people making the wheels turn even when the Church made mistakes. Ya'll should demand more of your preachers who are giving you this false dichotomy among faith and reason.

[TexasHorseLady]

When I was a preacher's kid growing up in East Texas, when I was in the 4th grade my Daddy the minister introduced me to Darwin, let me read his copy of Origin of the Species. I had no problem with it, and quickly figured out on my own, from a religious perspective, "The Bible tells us who, this tells us how." None of his fellow preachers had any problem with this, by the way. This was in the 1950's.

So you might want to rethink your blanket statement about what "you Texans" think and need to learn, as it appears to be based just as much on belief over fact as creationism is.

[DoomedRepeat]

Sensitive aren't we.. Texas is where the controversy of this topic is, and Texans are the persons for and against the issue. I have been writing crystal clear as to my position. Therefore it is understood my comment to Texans logically inferred those persons living in Texas for creationism side of the argument who are religious and believe evolution means they can't be faithfully, however small or large that group is. And while on fallacy, let it be said one persons experience does not make a whole. Bowing out now..

[loves2read]

thanks HorseLady--hit the nail on the head
I don't want my tax money going to teach something that is taught in Sunday School by anyone who reads any particular version of the Bible or espouses any particular version of the creation of the world

most of the people who want creationism taught want THEIR brand of creationism which is a protestant conservative god doing his part to make a protestant conservative world--especially in TX

my husband works with geologists--petroleum geologists--whose business and education require that they know and base their business decisions on hard evidence that the earth is millions of years old--NOT what intelligent design wants to teach--they can use all their BS/MS degree knowledge to plan a well and decipher the core of the drill hole--and yet forget all that when it comes to wanting creationism taught in schools
it is NUTS---basically they want religion taught in school--their brand of religion/philosophy/world view/life attitude--and not just in science class--they would love to have that filtered into every part of the curricula but that is not what science or PUBLICLY FUNDED education is supposed to be about

prove God created the world---
prove it--you can't---no SCIENTIFIC STUDY/FINDING/PROCESS CAN DO IT or show that there is such a reality as a soul--but I believe people have souls without proof positive...
I can show you evidence of dinosaurs that are millions of years old--I can show you definitive DNA relationship and physical evidence of evolution between the ages/development of man and some strong correlation between man and primates--much more scientific evidence than creationists want to admit IS scientific or legitimate

some people like Sarah Palin believe that seeing men and dinosaurs on a video means that they actually lived in same time span--duh...
people with that mind set have no business deciding anything crucial regarding education...and people like that are on the state board--what you get for having elected officials that people don't investigate or care about...

the part I found very funny and disturbing in that linked article came from this excerpt:
The board is considering a draft document crafted by a committee of teachers and other education experts who had recommended replacing the “strengths and weaknesses” phrase with a requirement to “analyze and evaluate scientific explanations.”

what they are trying to get into play is the ability for a science curriculum that would "evaluate" scientific explanations by comparing them with creationism and God's design--wonder what type of belief system the teachers and other education experts espouse???

and LOVES ROSES--this is not about your personal choice to believe what you want
it is not about your faith in God--why can't you believe that God actually started the process of natural selection when he created the world and consider that the story of Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden is one that has been used in EVERY MAJOR RELIGION most of whom are MUCH OLDER than Christianity even if Adam and Eve had a different name and were created by a different God--even the Muslim religion derives from the Old Testament and thus conforms to the Garden of Eden creation story--do you want a Muslim version of creationism taught--I doubt it
---Christians seem to think that they came up with the idea of the world evolving from a Garden-of-Eden senario when it is so typical just as the story of God's son as savior is also an archetypical myth---if they would expand their reading to Joseph Campbell's myth series and get an education in anthopology/world cultures they might be surprised to see how many other countries/religions share that same myth-based archetype..

[love roses]

I know it's not about my personal belief choices, but my parents always taught me that there are 2 sides to every argument, and even though I fail sometimes, I always try and remember that and apply it. I know that many cultures have similar stories. I love history. I read as much as I can of it from older and newer books. It gives you a broader perspective of how people used to think as opposed to how they think currently. Actually, that didn't come out right...How people look at an idea or theory is what I meant. This is just my opinion/belief, but yes, I believe man was created...but I also believe that they did evolve. There are even places in the bible where it says men went out and evolved to the areas they spread out to. I take this to mean skin color, language, etc....After the flood, tower of babel and there are others too. To me, Jesus being Gods son isn't myth but we do have free will to believe how we want. I wouldn't really care if my daughter learned the muslim version of how man was created as long as that wasn't strictly the only one she learned. What's interesting is that no matter what the culture, that the stories are so similar even without the same names. I'm not trying to sound idiotic or like I'm better than everyone because I'm not. Just because I call myself Christian doesn't mean I know everything and am always right. My best friend is a Wiccan so I do like to think I can be open minded.

I haven't read Joseph Campbell, but my younger sister probably has. She loves all that stuff. Her husband is an engineer and drills oil wells and so I do get to hear stories from him about fossils and geology, etc...

[houstoner]

Originally Posted by loves2read

my husband works with geologists--petroleum geologists--whose business and education require that they know and base their business decisions on hard evidence that the earth is millions of years old--NOT what intelligent design wants to teach--they can use all their BS/MS degree knowledge to plan a well and decipher the core of the drill hole--and yet forget all that when it comes to wanting creationism taught in schools
it is NUTS---basically they want religion taught in school--their brand of religion/philosophy/world view/life attitude--and not just in science class--they would love to have that filtered into every part of the curricula but that is not what science or PUBLICLY FUNDED education is supposed to be about

Really? Your husband's geologist co-workers are the same types who want creationism taught in schools? I find that very surprising because in my experience the hard science types are usually the ones against it.

[TX_AGGIE13]

I believe in evolution....I believe all those who believe in it come from monkeys, sea horses, banana nuts, hailey's comit flares, etc....lol.

[TexasReb]

I know I am getting into this one late....but I am wondering why there is so much opposition to that the basic idea of "intelligent design" might be presented? And why so many are so intent on making it synoymous with teaching "Creationism"?

Hell, I would like to know when this "Creationism" has ever been taught in Texas schools to begin with?

What it really boils down to is that there are some out there who feel terribly threatened by anything which might make students question that life didn't originate from random accident, etc.

I will be the first to admit I know next to nothing (in the whole scheme of things) about biology. Personally, I see nothing incompatible at all with that a God with Divine Intent started the whole thing and that an evolution started to roll on....

[houstoner]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Hell, I would like to know when this "Creationism" has ever been taught in Texas schools to begin with?

That's a good question. I was never taught it, except at church, of course. Not at school. And I went to school in a small town. I suppose people are protesting that the ambiguity of the language "strengths and weaknesses" leave it open to interpretation so that there's a possibility that it might be taught in schools? Or maybe it has been taught in some schools since it seems left up to the discretion of the teacher?

[TexasHorseLady]

I see nothing incompatible with that, obviously, HOWEVER, the Constitution makes it quite clear that the government shall keep its fingers OUT of religion. It may NOT put forward the belief system of one religion over those of oall the others, in government-sponsored prayer, in government-sponsored teaching of the beliefs of one religion rather than those of another. That is at the very foundation of what this country was founded on - escape from government-decreed religion. Heck, I even learned that as a preacher's kid, at my father's knee.

So I ask you, TexasReb, the question I asked generally earlier: if you want intelligent design or creationism taught in the public schools, are you willing to give equal time and weight, in any school that does so, to the creation beliefs of all of the other religions out there? If you're not, why not?

Oh, and I don't feel threatened at all by anything other than the tinkering that's been going on for far too much of late ("of late" not meaning just in the latest administration, but preceding that by some time") with our civil liberties - the civil liberties of ALL of us.