Possibly moving to Denison. What are the people and town like? (Dallas: section 8, rentals)

[lallen2004]

We've found B&B property in Denison that we're thinking of purchasing, but have not yet visited the town. We're moving to TX from Florida and hoping for friendly people, a welcoming western town, a good ole cowboy lifestyle, lots of horses & fishing and some area attractions to draw guests into the B&B. Can you fill me in as to whether Denison would be a good match to what we're searching for?

[stillkit]

I've lived in, or around, Denison for most of my 60 years (I live here now) and this is what I think:

It's not a "western town" in the sense you may mean. Though it's history began with the first railroad into Texas, cattle drives, outlaws and saloons, it's a pretty staid place now. There are plenty of farms and ranches around, but you rarely see cowboy hats any more. Cowboy boots are still popular and it's not even uncommon to see someone riding a horse down the street, but it's not a "cowboy" town like you find in West Texas.

The people here are friendly, helpful and co-operative. You can't beat them for neighbors, especially in times of trouble. However, like any town, it has it's fair share of lowlifes. There's a big, underground drug problem here (mostly meth) and a whole different "citizenry" comes out after dark. The daylight sweeps them back into whatever hole they live in, but they're still there.

The streets are in pretty good shape, though the main east/west artery (Morton St) is too small to handle the traffic which flows out to the freeway and the Walmart complex at US-75 and FM-120. Additionally, there's a short-line railroad here which feels compelled to block that street just about every afternoon for 15-30 minutes at a time. Nobody does anything about it.

Other pubic services and infrastructure has kept up with growth pretty easily because there hasn't been any growth. The population now is about the same as it was in the 1960's, in spite of all the plans which have been made and are still being made. The truth is that Denison is a pass-through city, not a destination for tourists and travelers.

The latest version of a "growth" plan envisions the city as a bedroom community for Dallas. There's little emphasis on bringing in industry and the plan prefers only growth in service jobs. A huge number of industries have left the city, or closed down, in the past few years and the buildings sit empty. The unemployment rate is about the same as the state rate, but most here are underemployed. If you can find a job which pays $15 an hour, you've found the best job in town. Most start at just above minimum wage and there really are city policies in place to encourage that.

The new master growth plan is built around a coming development on Lake Texoma which may, or may not, become a reality. The developers plan thousands of houses, a marina, 5 star hotels and the whole ball of wax on land which was Corps of Engineers land, but they had the political savy and influence to get that land from the Corps. That will make their development the only one on the Texas side with actual lakefront property. Denison, of course, is planning to annex the whole thing.

And, unless the bad economy interferes, it might actually work. The US-75 freeway, and it's access to the lake, will be supplemented by an extension of TX-289 to the nearby town of Pottsboro (already nearing completion), giving Dallasites another direct route, and a new toll road alongside it will follow within a few years.

The flip-side is that the city fathers are determined to clean up the town so it will present a better image and draw a higher class of interested people. They're well into a process of tearing down delapidated buildings, even if they are occupied. More than one poor person has been tossed out of their house and seen it torn down because they can't afford to maintain it. Additionally, the new master plan includes some cosmetic provisions, such as restrictions on metal siding, mandated shrubbery to "hide" things like AC units etc, that will make it even more difficult for poorer people to live here. Those provisions go right along with current laws which restrict the parking of motor homes, non-running vehicles, large trucks or trailers on your own property (and, yes, they aggressively enforce it), plus a prohibition against parking cars on unpaved driveways.

And, that leads to another problem you will have to deal with. The city government has been run by a very small clique of old-time families, downtown businessmen and Doctors for a long time and it's still that way. Of course, that's typical of any small town, but it's still something you, as an outsider, will have to come to grips with. If you want to do something for, or to your business they don't like, you'll never get the permits to do it.

Attractions to draw tourists? Oh, there are several of them, but the biggest draw is Lake Texoma. On summer weekends, there will be literally tens of thousands of people on the lake and a good many of them are from out of town. The downside is that most of them come up from the DFW metroplex and either don't spend the night here or camp out. The motels and hotels don't fill up regularly. There are other, seasonal things like the National Aerobatic Championships which bring a lot of hotel customers, but I doubt those few days would generate enough income to keep your business open.

One more thing: There are already some B&B's here, and around the lake, but most don't stay open very long. There's just a very, very limited possible clientel. I doubt any of them produce enough income to live on, but you'd better ask them.

Overall? It's not a bad place, but it could be better...a LOT better.

[Lakewooder]

Originally Posted by stillkit

they had the political savy and influence to get that land from the Corps. That will make their development the only one on the Texas side with actual lakefront property. Denison, of course, is planning to annex the whole thing.

And, that leads to another problem you will have to deal with. The city government has been run by a very small clique of old-time families, downtown businessmen and Doctors for a long time and it's still that way. Of course, that's typical of any small town, but it's still something you, as an outsider, will have to come to grips with. If you want to do something for, or to your business they don't like, you'll never get the permits to do it..

Yes if you want to own and run a business in Grayson County you had better learn to 'play ball' especially with one County Commissioner. He and the local U.S. Army Corps of Engineers are totally corrupt.

Don't bother trying to fight them because they have taxpayer-paid lawyers and their legal battle plan will be to drain you of all your resources, not fight you on the merits of the issue. They also control the local press and will drag you through the mud and make you look like a fool. If you are not careful you will also wind up in jail if you give them any opening (rolling through a stop sign or whatever). Then they also control the county tax authority and can tax you into oblivion by raising your appraised value. They can even halt your utility service by moving a line or a road (the road contractor then gives a kickback). The local surveyor (once convicted on cocaine charges) will then survey your property and you will find that 'you don't own what you thought you owned'.

Sorry to be so negative but I've seen this for decades and nobody ever rises up to fight it...it's really kind of a joke it's so bad.

[stillkit]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

Yes if you want to own and run a business in Grayson County you had better learn to 'play ball' especially with one County Commissioner. He and the local U.S. Army Corps of Engineers are totally corrupt.

Don't bother trying to fight them because they have taxpayer-paid lawyers and their legal battle plan will be to drain you of all your resources, not fight you on the merits of the issue. They also control the local press and will drag you through the mud and make you look like a fool. If you are not careful you will also wind up in jail if you give them any opening (rolling through a stop sign or whatever). Then they also control the county tax authority and can tax you into oblivion by raising your appraised value. They can even halt your utility service by moving a line or a road (the road contractor then gives a kickback). The local surveyor (once convicted on cocaine charges) will then survey your property and you will find that 'you don't own what you thought you owned'.

Sorry to be so negative but I've seen this for decades and nobody ever rises up to fight it...it's really kind of a joke it's so bad.

Ol' Gene? LOL

[Lakewooder]

Hey I didn't say that!!! LOL I don't want to get in trouble!

[stillkit]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

Hey I didn't say that!!! LOL I don't want to get in trouble!

Me? Afraid of trouble? Heck, I called him a bigot in the local paper a couple of years ago, and nobody's come to get me yet!

[lallen2004]

Thanks Stillkit for the amazing rundown of your town which is a great help to me......and note to self - stay away from anyone named Ol' Gene.....

[stillkit]

Originally Posted by lallen2004

Thanks Stillkit for the amazing rundown of your town which is a great help to me......and note to self - stay away from anyone named Ol' Gene.....

You're welcome. And, ol' Gene's alright.

[FarNorthDallas]

We're some of the Dallasites that go back and forth to Lake Texoma. We have houses there, so no need for a B&B. I have seen plenty of B&B's come and go. They never last long. Folks I know who are going to spend some time in those parts are specifically headed to Lake Texoma and they rent cabins close to the lake, stay on their boats, rent a condo or room at Tanglewood, camp at one of the parks or just go for the day.

Downtown Denison has a lot of flea market type stores - junk stores - very fun to search for treasures. Dension is also the birthplace of President Dwight Eisenhower and there is a small house/museum you can visit. The dam that makes Lake Texoma is also in Denison and interesting. The town is just not much of a destination. Sherman has Austin College which is a well-regarded liberal arts school.

The Corps of Engineers is just pitiful. Just ridiculous, as far as being corrupt.

[GayleTX]

Stillkit did a good job......I would second most of it (I lived near Denison for many years, too) but I would possibly not be as nice about most of it. It's not a 'western' town....it's a dirty old railroad town, lots of old houses, mostly rentals, Section 8 type houses. The nicer, newer neighborhoods are out in the edge of town in the rural areas.

If the B&B you're looking at is the one I think, it's in a rough part of town and I don't know anyone who would stay there if they knew where they were going. The hotels have overbuilt just within the past 2-3 years (out on the highway between Sherman and Denison) and you can stay in a very nice hotel for $65 a night right now in the middle of the tourist season. The B&B's that people have opened over the years (like many of the restaurants) have all been very temporary.

Sorry to be negative, but if I were in your position, I would want someone to be realistic with me. Best wishes to you in your move and your decisions.