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Unread 10-03-2010, 05:03 PM
 
252 posts, read 378,035 times
Reputation: 115
TexasReb,

First off, sorry if my post came off negative. That wasn't my intention at all, nothing personal intended.

But to be honest, I don't believe there is really one Texas accent but a bunch of different accents in Texas and even if all of these accents were really part of only one Texas accent, I don't believe that accent would be a "Southern accent with a twist." There are more people who have settled in Texas besides Southerners.

I've known plenty of Southerners with thick accents and their accents are a world of their own.

Quote:
Not withstanding some topographical similiarities, even most of West Texas was settled by pioneers from the southeastern states
Considering that you are probably talking about pioneers from 150+ years ago, that is no longer relevant. Accents are not static entities that withstand outside influence for 150+ years... besides, plenty of people from West Texas who are not from the Southeastern states. I used to live in West Texas and I honestly didn't know of anyone from the Southeast or who had grandparents from the Southeast.

If someone is from Tennessee living in, say, New Mexico, it doesn't mean his descendants 150+ years or whatever are going to have Tennessee accents.

Quote:
But so far as the main thread topic goes, there is no single "Southern accent" anyway.
Perhaps not but Southern accents still sound similar enough to non-Southerners... and if you suggest that there is no single "Southern accent," then how can you agree earlier with the statement of a college professor saying that a "Texas accent" is a "southern accent with a twist?"

Quote:
The study done and cited earlier (the most extensive ever) on Texas speech patterns by those professional linguists pegged it pretty well. The "Southern accent with a twist" is a great and accurate way to put it.
Yet you just said that there is more than one Southern accent...

Quote:
That is, it recognizes the major confluence of Southern speech areas (the Upper South twang and the Lower South drawl) which kinda blended together with a few other influences to make it something somewhat unique, but still part of the major speech region known as Southern American. A pretty good metaphor for the state itself, IMHO. Essentially Southern, but with some unique factors operating as well.
Frankly, I think you're biased due to your love for the South. Dude, not everyone in Texas is from the South. My family came out of Missouri. There's plenty of people here that are from California. Texas was never really a typical Southern state anyway... partly because Texas was settled only a few decades before the War for Southern Independence (incorrectly known as a Civil War).

I know that there's been a lot of Southerns who settled into Texas, but there's also a lot of non-Southerners who settled into Texas as well. All the Germans who settled around the Hill County didn't come with Southern accents.

So I think it's a little biased to say that Texas accents are Southern accents with a twist... there's more to it than that.

Quote:
I think the point being made is that commonalities of idiom (coke, y'all, fixing-too, etc) are also considered factors when classifying different part of the country into major linguistic regions.
And my point is that that has nothing to do with accents (i.e. pronounciation of words) so I always thought it was kinda retarded to use it as a factor for classifying accents. There's plenty of people in those regions that don't say "Coke" for everything. I see accents as being separate from spoken vocabulary.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 07:17 PM
 
9,622 posts, read 9,935,994 times
Reputation: 4748
Quote:
Originally Posted by triwing View Post
TexasReb,

First off, sorry if my post came off negative. That wasn't my intention at all, nothing personal intended.
I didn't take it that way at all. Thanks for your courteous and civil reply. I always enjoy a good discussion/debate with a person with such good manners!

Quote:
But to be honest, I don't believe there is really one Texas accent but a bunch of different accents in Texas and even if all of these accents were really part of only one Texas accent, I don't believe that accent would be a "Southern accent with a twist." There are more people who have settled in Texas besides Southerners.
Correct. There is no single Texas accent. Just as there is no single Southern accent. Which is a central point.

And you are right that more than southeasterners settled Texas. But far and away, it was they who made up the dominant population. In this order, Tennessee, Alabama and Mississippi, accounted for about 60% of new Texans once the state was opened for settlement (I will have to look up the exact percentage, but I promise it is in the ballparki). Not sure exactly the order, but Louisiana, Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina and Missouri put the southeast figure high in the 90's.

Quote:
I've known plenty of Southerners with thick accents and their accents are a world of their own.
Which ones? North Alabama? South Mississippi? Coastal Georgia? Mountain Tennessee? Do they sound alike? Of course they don't. I have a distant cousin originally from North Alabama who moved to Mississippi, and she was mistaken for a Texan! LOL Point is, all of these dialects -- including West Texas -- are properly classified as "Southern American English".

And this is the opinion of professionals in the field of lingusistics. Not mine.

Quote:
Considering that you are probably talking about pioneers from 150+ years ago, that is no longer relevant. Accents are not static entities that withstand outside influence for 150+ years... besides, plenty of people from West Texas who are not from the Southeastern states. I used to live in West Texas and I honestly didn't know of anyone from the Southeast or who had grandparents from the Southeast.
Which is why, in many of the larger Texas cities, a Texas/Southern accent has often become an oddity! LOL Anyway, our experiences may be different. Growing up, I spent a lot of time in West Texas myself (Lubbock). And just about everyone I knew out there had roots traceable to the southeast. They attended Southern Baptist Churches, spoke with a thick Texas twang (a first cousin of that spoken in east Tennessee and north Alabama), and served black-eyed peas on New Years Day! Yummy!

Quote:
If someone is from Tennessee living in, say, New Mexico, it doesn't mean his descendants 150+ years or whatever are going to have Tennessee accents.
No, it doesn't. But this is quite a leap. The simple fact is, New Mexico and Texas cannot be compared in terms of Southern settlement. Why do you think (or don't) that linguistic patterns do not follow obvious settlement patterns? Texas talk is part a natural extension of such patterns. On the other hand, Southern settlement pretty much stopped along a slice of eastern New Mexico. It is still known as "Little Texas."

Quote:
Perhaps not but Southern accents still sound similar enough to non-Southerners... and if you suggest that there is no single "Southern accent," then how can you agree earlier with the statement of a college professor saying that a "Texas accent" is a "southern accent with a twist?" Yet you just said that there is more than one Southern accent...
I am not trying to be condecending, but just read the links again, and the credentials of those who conducted the most extensive study ever done on Texas accents:

Do You Speak American . Sea to Shining Sea . American Varieties . Texan | PBS

Do You Speak American . Sea to Shining Sea . American Varieties . Texan | PBS

Do You Speak American . What Speech Do We Like Best? . Mapping | PBS

Quote:
Frankly, I think you're biased due to your love for the South. Dude, not everyone in Texas is from the South. My family came out of Missouri. There's plenty of people here that are from California. Texas was never really a typical Southern state anyway... partly because Texas was settled only a few decades before the War for Southern Independence (incorrectly known as a Civil War).
Do me a favor, ok...and don't refer to me as "dude". A Texas man calling another Texas man "dude" is bad manners (I expect better from you) and, quite frankly, insulting. A word to the wise is always sufficient!

Now that I hope we got that straight, I for sure agree with you as to correct terminology as to what passes under the name of "Civil War" LOL

No, Texas was/isn't a "typical" Southern state. I have made this point -- in the same word -- countless times before and on countless threads. First and foremost, Texas is TEXAS! But it is essentially a Southern state when it has to be placed into one or another region.

Quote:
I know that there's been a lot of Southerns who settled into Texas, but there's also a lot of non-Southerners who settled into Texas as well. All the Germans who settled around the Hill County didn't come with Southern accents.
Yes, but the overwhelming majority of Texas pioneers were Southerners from the southeastern states. That is simply inarguable.

Quote:
So I think it's a little biased to say that Texas accents are Southern accents with a twist... there's more to it than that.
That is a fair enough opinion. But? Back it up what you say with something substantial. The one I have is based upon the most extensive study ever done on Texas speech.

Quote:
And my point is that that has nothing to do with accents (i.e. pronounciation of words) so I always thought it was kinda retarded to use it as a factor for classifying accents. There's plenty of people in those regions that don't say "Coke" for everything. I see accents as being separate from spoken vocabulary.
It is accent and idiom (which I think is the term you are alluding to) which go into classifying regional speech. Here is another good link:

Southern American English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now then, I gotta get up at 5:30 in the morning to get ready to go to work. And the alarm clock don't care a damn whether I am ready or not. G'night y'all!

Last edited by TexasReb; 10-03-2010 at 07:27 PM..
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:51 PM
 
123 posts, read 133,375 times
Reputation: 60
being from the edge of the big thicket over around lake livingston area, wif a daddy whose folks come down from indiana back to the mid fifties(oh, 1850's that is) an a momma whose folks come to liberty from lafourshe parrish in 1852, i was all messed up.

we called everything a coke, but momma called it sode pop.

when i would get around her kin with that fast cajun slurry talked slang, id be locked into that for days before it faded.

they was folks over in the thicket that i could barely unnerstand. hell, they was folks in my home town i could barely unnerstand.

i reckon there aint no one east texas accent. theres about three hunnert!

in houston back when i was runnin around building all those high rises back to the early 80's there was folks there would call me "hick" and "that redneck from up north", and "country boy". gee whiz, it was houston, far as i could tell we ALL talked with an accent!

i go to beaumont and come back and my wife says, "why you talkin so wierd like a cotton plantation field hand" and its that danged cooney accent done got in my head.

same way i go to visit my momma where she lives on the coast now. i come back and the wife kids me about, "talkin like a coon-ass".
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Unread 10-04-2010, 07:14 AM
 
9,622 posts, read 9,935,994 times
Reputation: 4748
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Do me a favor, ok...and don't refer to me as "dude". A Texas man calling another Texas man "dude" is bad manners (I expect better from you) and, quite frankly, insulting. A word to the wise is always sufficient!
Gotta get to work (I HATE Mondays!), but in looking my post of last night back over this morning, this particular passage may have come across as a little pompous and stuffy! I really ain't that way at all!

Just something else I forgot to mention:

Quote:
Twiring wrote: Texas was never really a typical Southern state anyway... partly because Texas was settled only a few decades before the War for Southern Independence (incorrectly known as a Civil War).

I know that there's been a lot of Southerns who settled into Texas, but there's also a lot of non-Southerners who settled into Texas as well. All the Germans who settled around the Hill County didn't come with Southern accents.
As said earlier, Texas is Texas of course. On that we all agree. And not a typical Southern state, as its size and history make it unique (but then again, in lots of ways, Virginia and Louisiana have certain "independent" characteristics as well!).

Anyway, actually, at the time of the War Between the States, Texas was pretty much an all-out Lower South "cotton state". In fact, only in South Carolina did a higher percentage of delegates vote for secession. True that, relative to its boundaries, the population was small per-capita. But in actual numbers, it wasn't all that much different from many of the southeast states.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/population1860.htm

You mentioned the German population in Central Texas. Here is an interesting link I came across a while back. I was previously unfamiliar with the facts the author cited as concerning "Unionism" amongst the population in that area.

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/20...-gott-mit-uns/

Now then, back to work! LOL

Last edited by TexasReb; 10-04-2010 at 07:34 AM..
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Unread 10-05-2010, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Everywhere OKLAHOMA
3,808 posts, read 3,203,707 times
Reputation: 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by triwing View Post
TexasReb,

First off, sorry if my post came off negative. That wasn't my intention at all, nothing personal intended.

But to be honest, I don't believe there is really one Texas accent but a bunch of different accents in Texas and even if all of these accents were really part of only one Texas accent, I don't believe that accent would be a "Southern accent with a twist." There are more people who have settled in Texas besides Southerners.

I've known plenty of Southerners with thick accents and their accents are a world of their own.



Considering that you are probably talking about pioneers from 150+ years ago, that is no longer relevant. Accents are not static entities that withstand outside influence for 150+ years... besides, plenty of people from West Texas who are not from the Southeastern states. I used to live in West Texas and I honestly didn't know of anyone from the Southeast or who had grandparents from the Southeast.

If someone is from Tennessee living in, say, New Mexico, it doesn't mean his descendants 150+ years or whatever are going to have Tennessee accents.



Perhaps not but Southern accents still sound similar enough to non-Southerners... and if you suggest that there is no single "Southern accent," then how can you agree earlier with the statement of a college professor saying that a "Texas accent" is a "southern accent with a twist?"



Yet you just said that there is more than one Southern accent...



Frankly, I think you're biased due to your love for the South. Dude, not everyone in Texas is from the South. My family came out of Missouri. There's plenty of people here that are from California. Texas was never really a typical Southern state anyway... partly because Texas was settled only a few decades before the War for Southern Independence (incorrectly known as a Civil War).

I know that there's been a lot of Southerns who settled into Texas, but there's also a lot of non-Southerners who settled into Texas as well. All the Germans who settled around the Hill County didn't come with Southern accents.

So I think it's a little biased to say that Texas accents are Southern accents with a twist... there's more to it than that.



And my point is that that has nothing to do with accents (i.e. pronounciation of words) so I always thought it was kinda retarded to use it as a factor for classifying accents. There's plenty of people in those regions that don't say "Coke" for everything. I see accents as being separate from spoken vocabulary.

Just an interesting aside that I thought I would contribute. The majority of Germans that have settled Texas took on Southern culture/similitudes and not the other way around. Have you ever been to Gruene, TX? New Braunfels? The older folks that were born and raised in that area have very thick Texas twangs. (Obviously the transplants do not.)

It is very similar in my homestate of Oklahoma. My wife's family is overtly German (from north-central and west-central Oklahoma)....the name, looks, some mannerisms, etc. are obvious in terms of German origin. However, their speech is your typical thick Oklahoma Twang = which is a type/slice of the larger/broader Southern American English that TexasReb often talks about.

Just something that came to mind as I was reading your response.
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Unread 10-11-2010, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Texas
66 posts, read 72,640 times
Reputation: 95
Accents! I was born here in Texas over 60 years ago. The only accents I know of that are different are from out of towners.
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