Does Toledo hold its own against the suburbs? (Cleveland, Youngstown: crime, big home)

[PreservationPioneer]

Is the city of Toledo considered a desirable place to live compared to the suburbs, or are the suburbs mostly preferred? I'm asking because I know that there are cities in the midwest/rust belt where it is almost unheard of for people with money to actually live within city limits (Detroit). Has Toledo avoided this at all? Is it still considered mainstream to live in the city? Or do people look at the city as a crumbling ghetto. Are the nice areas of the city, such as Old West End, Downtown, and Old Orchard (based on what I have heard), desirable places to live, or are they mostly inhabited by urban pioneer types?

[Tobias C]

I would say the suburbs are preferred to the city proper as far as gauging what the majority of people prefer. However, Toledo has plenty of areas within the city that would be considered affluent and at least upper-middle class. Downtown isn't one of those places. Downtown would not be considered a "mainstream" place to live yet. Downtown is still in its earlier stages of regrowth, and is home to mostly young professionals, artistic types, empty nesters, etc. Not families, really. The Old West End is home to some families, but still wouldn't be considered a preferred location to the majority of mainstream people (they're missing out!) because of poor inner city schools and crime in adjacent areas. When I think of the Old West End, I think of eclectic middle aged to older people, such as college professors and gay couples.

You mentioned Old Orchard, and while I don't know if it would be considered "mainstream" it is definitely an area within the City of Toledo that is affluent. A lot of people who work for the college live around here since Old Orchard is adjacent to the campus. Some areas that probably receive more notice from everyday people with deeper pockets would be the areas of West Toledo, around Ottawa Hills and Wildwood Metropark, off of Corey Rd as well as the area of River Rd along the Maumee River from up by Glendale Ave all the way down to the Maumee border.

There's plenty of other neighborhoods within Toledo that are nice, safe, and middle class as well but average people are definitely still attracted to the suburbs mostly around here.

Not me though

[AnytimeAnywhere]

The suburbs of Toledo are generally nicer than most of Toledo. West Toledo is about the best area of the city.

[czb2004]

The city of Toledo is not seen as a desirable place by most suburbanites.

[jrm2811]

Have to agree the burbs are the better place to live by most accounts. I live near Old Orchard which is a very nice area - big homes, big trees and the University nearby. Lots of 'old money' types still seem to live there, but there are young families starting to move in. I much rather live in the city but be aware this is not like Pittsburgh. Toledo and the whole metro area for that matter, have a strip mall feel to it. Not many areas with funky cafes, etc.

[ferraris]

There are quite a few neighborhoods in Toledo that aren't ghettos or just for the urban pioneer and artsty types. Beverly, Harvard Terrace, the River Road area all the way to Maumee, Westmoreland, Old Orchard, Crossgates, and a few more that I'm not sure what to call. There are also a lot of areas that are pretty solidly working class, are generally safe, and wouldn't be considered ghettos.

I'm not sure if you are asking from a government perspective or a distance to the city perspective, but Ottawa Hills is practically an enclave of Toledo and is one of the most affluent places in the state.

[Traveler87]

Having been in Toledo many times, and traveling directly across the border into all of Michigan's decent sized cities, Toledo is in much better shape. There is still the concensus across the country that people prefer the suburbs, but people are slowly working their way back into the cities. I look at Toledo, it has stable neighborhoods, cultural institutions that cities twice its size could wish for, a major university, and heavy new investment in the city. Not only downtown, but foreign investment too. Foreign investment is extremely important.

I take a look at Detroit where it has areas driving through it that look like they belong in Ukraine after the Soviet Union broke up, abandoned houses, some collapsing in on eachother or others that are nothing but a pile of debris. Also, there are urban fields now that look like they belong in some small town in Iowa. Or Flint, a city that has almost 200,000 people fewer than Toledo, has a much higher crime and murder rate.

Toledo has problems just like any city, but it is moving in the right direction and taking strides to go somewhere. When the mayor travels to China to bring in investment, that tells me he has his priorities in the right place. Toledo's downtown is going somewhere great, and it has good bones. The art museum and zoo are world class. It is going to take some time, but in a few years, Toledo is going to be getting a lot more positive press. Good things take time...

[Tobias C]

Originally Posted by traveler87

toledo has problems just like any city, but it is moving in the right direction and taking strides to go somewhere. When the mayor travels to china to bring in investment, that tells me he has his priorities in the right place. Toledo's downtown is going somewhere great, and it has good bones. The art museum and zoo are world class. It is going to take some time, but in a few years, toledo is going to be getting a lot more positive press. Good things take time...

+1

[PreservationPioneer]

I agree with everything you said. I am from Michigan and have visited Toledo several times. It strikes me as surprisingly stable, especially considering how close it is to Detroit, and being at the center of a depressed region. It has issues like any city, but I think Toledo is a real survivor among the rust belt cities. I think with a little more investment, it could be like Pittsburgh, a vibrant star of the region. The downtown, in particular, has awesome potential, with gorgeous and underutilized historic building stock. The neighborhoods seem to have a lot to offer -- everything from 19th century Victorians (Old West End), Italianate row-houses (Vistula), to post-war ranches and Craftsman bungalows! Most of the neighborhoods seem to have sidewalks, and the downtown seems mostly flat and on a grid, so in spite of what people say I think Toledo IS walkable. The bones are there. The healthy neighborhoods and affordability are there. If the jobs were there, I think the city could take off big time.

Also, I want to add that, while Toledo is losing population, historically it has not lost nearly as many people as its rust belt neighbors. Detroit, Flint, Youngstown, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc. have all lost more than half their peak populations. I think Toledo has lost a lot less people than that from its peak population!

Originally Posted by Traveler87

Having been in Toledo many times, and traveling directly across the border into all of Michigan's decent sized cities, Toledo is in much better shape. There is still the concensus across the country that people prefer the suburbs, but people are slowly working their way back into the cities. I look at Toledo, it has stable neighborhoods, cultural institutions that cities twice its size could wish for, a major university, and heavy new investment in the city. Not only downtown, but foreign investment too. Foreign investment is extremely important.

I take a look at Detroit where it has areas driving through it that look like they belong in Ukraine after the Soviet Union broke up, abandoned houses, some collapsing in on eachother or others that are nothing but a pile of debris. Also, there are urban fields now that look like they belong in some small town in Iowa. Or Flint, a city that has almost 200,000 people fewer than Toledo, has a much higher crime and murder rate.

Toledo has problems just like any city, but it is moving in the right direction and taking strides to go somewhere. When the mayor travels to China to bring in investment, that tells me he has his priorities in the right place. Toledo's downtown is going somewhere great, and it has good bones. The art museum and zoo are world class. It is going to take some time, but in a few years, Toledo is going to be getting a lot more positive press. Good things take time...

[ryansmith]

I wouldn't dream of living in a suburb, especially in Metro Toledo. In many cities the average home buyer can't afford to live near the city center... in Toledo you can.

Here is how I would but it. Baby-boomers overwhelmingly prefer suburbs. Gen X is half and half. The younger generation, whatever it is called, overwhelmingly hate the suburbs. I am on the cusp of X and Next.