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Old 12-28-2015, 12:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
Thanks for posting this. Often the usual suspects like Detroit and Baltimore get my attention but there are so many smaller less known cities like Toledo that are just as interesting to explore on youtube and streetview. Although I did not know Toledo is this bad, I think it is generally known Ohio is one of the most challenged states, with only Mississippi being much worse.
Just had to say that the bold is ridiculous. Ohio is in MUCH better shape than Mississippi and is doing very well economically. Ohio has a large number of major urban areas compared to only one in Mississippi and it has a diverse economy and has emerged from the financial crisis of 2008-2010 is pretty decent shape. The economy is growing here and even in Toledo the unemployment rate is under 5%.

I lived in the south for over 10 years and Ohio is MILES above practically all of the southern states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest1 View Post
I live in Gary and think Gary can lay a better claim to being mini-Detroit. In fact...Detroit might just be a mega-Gary.
I agree with this, with all the discussion about Detroit, I was going to point out that Gary is probably the worse city with blight in the Midwest, not Detroit. As was shared earlier, Detroit is having a renaissance of late and like the previous poster mentioned, downtown and midtown and other areas are seeing an increase in population and investment. Outerlying neighborhoods are blighted, yes, but Detroit is not a hell hole on earth and there is a lot going on there. If I didn't have kids, I would have moved to Detroit since I have family there. I'm from Toledo though and even though people think Toledo is "bad" me living in other areas has shown me that it is not as bad as people in Toledo think and is a relatively "nice" place IMO with decent schools, unlike Mississippi or any other state in the south. Ohio schools especially set the state apart from many of the southern states.
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:48 PM
 
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Living in Detroit, I consider Toledo as a satellite city of Motown like Ann Arbor and Flint. Toledo is located in a great area. It has a port, it's off the turnpike, and is basically the gateway city to Michigan. It also has a decent skyline.

The one major issue and problem for Toledo is that it doesn't seem to have all of its cultural and economic assets located in a compact walking distance like Grand Rapids for instance. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but that is the feeling I get. Perhaps others who are from the city could comment on that. What I mean, is that when you visit Grand Rapids for instance, there are so many things downtown all in walking distance giving it a feeling of a destination. Museums, libraries, breweries, restaurants, office towers, condos, apartments, parks, arenas, etc. But for some reason, Toledo just seems spread out with huge office towers taking up whole blocks which don't lend themselves to compact pedestrian blocks. Again, I'm the first to say I might be wrong with my assessment. Interested in what others feel.
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:04 AM
 
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I have only visited Toledo and the surrounding area. Family in the area nearby spoke badly of the city, esp. East Toledo. However, they would never really elaborate. Toledo was described as a fun place by another person.
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:00 AM
 
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I grew up on Toledo's East Side. It had it's issues, but it wasn't a bad place to grow up. It's much worse now than during my youth (70's & early 80's), thanks to lowlife gang members and people who don't take care of the property they either rent or own, along with 'killa' dogs they like to own. It's a disgusting, evil, sick mindset. There may be nice neighborhoods on the East Side, but much fewer than there were when I was growing up.

My second cousin inherited the house he grew up in when his mother passed away, and gang members broke into his house several times, a couple while he was sitting on his couch, and the thieves stole everything worth anything, including his deceased mother's jewelry. It got so bad he finally decided to abandon the house and move into an apartment. Guessing by now the bank claimed the property. That house was just down the street from where I grew up, and where I lived again after I got out of the military in 1990. I saw the area decline during the 90's, I moved away in 1999 and moved back to Toledo in 2007, and my old neighborhood had gotten much worse by then. Bad people have moved in and destroyed that working class neighborhood and the ones around it on the East Side.

The West Side was thought of as one of the better parts of town during my childhood, and while parts of it have declined somewhat, it's still a good place to live. I live in the Washington Township area of Toledo, and would have no problem sending my kids to the schools in this district, if I had any.

North and South Toledo I don't know as much about so can't comment on. I'm actually in the NW part of the city but when we think of the North End it isn't this area we are talking about. I know there are some rough areas in the North End, but I can't say exactly where, more northeast probably.

Comparing Toledo to Detroit isn't a fair comparison in any way as far as I'm concerned. After the Detroit riots in the 60's there was white flight from that city to the suburbs, and in the following years there were many abandoned houses burnt to the ground, on Halloween especially, further corroding what that great city once was. Add in factories closing down, it became a mess.

Now Toledo has it's issues, but in no way resembles Detroit. One if the major problems we have is with city government spending too much, including on their own pay, and having too many city councilmen and women, while coming to the voters wanting more money. They are planning on having an issue on the ballot to increase our income taxes by 1%, yet they have 12 city councilmen and women for a city of about 280,000. I don't know how many councilmen we had in the 70's when the population was over 360,000, but it had to of been fewer because it increased to 12 I believe in the early-mid 1990's. Cut 3 of the 6 at-large council seats, reduce salaries that Mike Bell raised when he was Mayor, and that'll be a start to reducing the budget to what we can afford.

They are promoting the 1% increase by saying it will be for road repair, but one of the councilmen was on the radio yesterday and when asked said part of it would be for firefighters, and one other thing I don't recall offhand. I'll be voting no on that one. They receive plenty of taxes for a city this size and they have to stop taking advantage of taxpayers.

So if Toledo ever ends up in Detroit's situation it'll be due to residents fleeing taxes, fees, fines, and just tyrannical leadership by our city government. People are getting tired of being taken advantage of. One of the reasons I moved away from this city that I love in 1999 was due to the mentality of too many people here that allows the residents to take it on the chin. City government and teachers' police and firefighters' unions better get their heads out of the clouds or this city will end up like Detroit, but for different reasons, and they will never see their full retirement benefits. They disgust me, can't even express how much so without having my post deleted by the mods.

So no OP, Toledo is not little Detroit. Not yet anyway.
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:06 AM
 
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And of course I didn't notice this thread is a year old. hah...whatever..
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Old 01-16-2016, 07:59 PM
 
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LOL OhioJB! There have been some recent post on the thread so no worries on reviving the thread!

On the post below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republic of Michigan View Post
Living in Detroit, I consider Toledo as a satellite city of Motown like Ann Arbor and Flint. Toledo is located in a great area. It has a port, it's off the turnpike, and is basically the gateway city to Michigan. It also has a decent skyline.

The one major issue and problem for Toledo is that it doesn't seem to have all of its cultural and economic assets located in a compact walking distance like Grand Rapids for instance. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but that is the feeling I get. Perhaps others who are from the city could comment on that. What I mean, is that when you visit Grand Rapids for instance, there are so many things downtown all in walking distance giving it a feeling of a destination. Museums, libraries, breweries, restaurants, office towers, condos, apartments, parks, arenas, etc. But for some reason, Toledo just seems spread out with huge office towers taking up whole blocks which don't lend themselves to compact pedestrian blocks. Again, I'm the first to say I might be wrong with my assessment. Interested in what others feel.

In regards to the bold, all of those things are actually in Downtown Toledo.

There are over 60 restaurants in downtown Toledo but I agree that they are not in a centralized location. They are spread out but walkability is pretty good downtown. There is Promenade Park, which is right on the river, but IMO it isn't that great of a park. Promedica, a major healthcare network is moving their headquarters down to the old steam plant in Toledo, which is right next to the Maumee River and Promenade park and so they will be bringing thousands of employees back downtown.

But off the top of my head some things I visit often downtown include:

Maumee Bay Brewery
(excellent restaurant and brewery on Broadway St.)
Main Branch - Toledo Lucas County Metropolitan Library (best main branch library I have EVER been to and I have not lived in Toledo my entire adulthood. I am a native, but have never found a library that offers as much as Toledo's does and the library downtown is an architectural jewel)
Valentine Theater (lots of GREAT shows and events at the Valentine and it is within walking distance of a few restaurants downtown. I'm taking my daughter to a show in March. I went to a ballet this past fall and last week to see Ballet Russe at the Valentine). The Toledo Repertoire Theater, which is a community theatre that puts on very good productions is also downtown but many people don't seem to know about it.
The main Office Tower is probaby HCR Manorcare. I worked there when I was a college student in the summers as a temporary intern and it has restaurants and shops in the building on Summit Street. The "OC" (Owen's Corning - lol a friend of mine calls it "the OC" and I love that!) is headquartered in Toledo and is also on Summit Street. They have a very nice location on an island with a solar paneled covered parking lot and walking trails with views of the river. They are very close to Maumee Bay Brewery/The Oliver House. There is also a great sushi restaurant next to HCR Manorcare (Kyota-Ka) that I frequently visit for lunch.

5/3rd Field - Toledo Mudhens Stadium is downtown. Lots of restuarants near the field and it is close to the OC and Tony Packos downtown along with all the restaurants on St. Clair Street.

The Huntington Center
is also downtown and is a building that replaced the Toledo Sports Arena on the East Side. The Huntington Center hosts the minor league hockey team - The Toledo Walleye. They also host various events throughout the year like concerts and family shows.

The Toledo Museum of Art is not downtown and is not within walking distance IMO but is close by on Monroe Street. TMA is a free museum is one of the best smaller museums in the country. It also has free admission and I have never taken a visitor there who was not impressed. They also have a pretty good cafe on site and the campus is pretty big with the glass pavillion across the street. Visiting TMA people also usually can walk around the Old West End neighborhood, which is adjacent to the glass pavillion.

So Toledo does offer all of those things, but I do feel that logistically, downtown could be better designed and should especially focus more on the river front and parks. I do think Promenade Park will get some attention due to the Promedica expansion. Across the river from downtown there is also an area called "The Docks" which has about 5 or 6 decent restaurants and people can dock their boats there and visit those locations. I have been to all of them. I like El Vacquero the best and The Real Seafood Company (they are an excellent restaurant and similarly priced to Red Lobster but have a higher quality of food IMO and great service and you can sit on the deck in good weather and have a great river view and view of downtown on the other side).

There has been a lot going on in downtown Toledo for a while now. And I do think it is getting better and better but I do think they need to pretty it up a bit more and maybe put some signage downtown to steer people to certain locations easier.

There are also a couple hotels downtown. The Park Inn which is adjacent to the Seagate Convention Center and the Grand Plaza near Imagination Station children's science museum (another great venue for the family/kids). I believe I read that the Grand Plaza was recently bought and is being remodeled. I have stayed there before and they offer some spectacular views of the Maumee River and the Hi-Level Bridge (Anthony Wayne Bridge, I have recently been informed is the "real name" of the bridge) for pretty cheap for the location/rooms.

But some of the places I mentioned are not readily known even by Toleoans. My parents had never heard of or visited the Maumee Bay Brewery/The Oliver House until recently when I took them and they have lived here 60+ years!

Oh and forgot to mention the Black Cloister, which is a new brewery/bar in downtown Toledo.

Just for logistics sake the following places are within walking distance of each other (a few blocks if centered on Adams Street)
Valentine Theatre
HCR Manor Care Building
Kyota-Ka (Lazeeze is another restaurant close by, there are a lot of others)
Imagination Station
The Grand Plaza Hotel
The Huntington Center

Centered on Washington Street:
Toledo Mudhens
Park Inn
The OC (Owens Corning)
The Oliver House/Maumee Bay Brewing Company (there are 3 restaurants in this location, it is the oldest building in Toledo that has been used consistently according to their signs)
St. Clair Street and its restaurants
Tony Packos
Frickers
Shared Lives Studio Art Gallery

Off the top of my head some restaurants/places I have visited over the past couple months (please note, I work near downtown Toledo and go there often for lunch)

Kyota-Ka
Our Brother's Place
The Valentine Theater
Imagination Station
The Docks
The Huntington Center
Ye Old Durty Burd
Tony Packos
Pita Pit
Frickers
Kengo Sushi and Yakitori (I like sushi)
Lazeeze Mediteranean
PJs (has HUMONGOUS baked potatoes and is a favorite for lunch)
Main Branch library (I go there weekly as I am an amateur historian in regards to NW Ohio history)

I also do go to the museum at least once a month since it is free. Even though it is not downtown, it is very easy to get to and you could spend 4-5 hours going through the museum by itself walking around.
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:09 PM
 
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I will note OhioJB that in regards to the unions and pensions and such, here in Ohio we actually have a very good public pension program. I'm not sure if police and fire are included, but at one time, I did work in public employment in Ohio and they have an excellent, well funded pension system. It is one of the best in the country. From information I still get from the program, I do believe that some police and fire departments utilize the same pension program and so they will get their full retirement since it is a decent pension program.

I do feel that taxes and other city government issues though for Toledo are an issue. I personally rolled my eyes regarding the new 1% tax. It is supposed to fix the street but if you really look into it, they aren't going to dedicate the entire 1% tax towards the roads. I would support it if it would go entirely toward fixing the roads or if 90% went towards the roads and the other 10% toward code enforcement and beautification/fixing up of downtown itself, since I spoke on it above.

I love Toledo and don't ever see myself leaving again unless the spouse vehemently wants to leave, but since I've moved back he loves it here and doesn't want to move either except maybe to Point Place to live by the lake.
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Old 01-17-2016, 06:17 AM
 
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I agree it would be easier to consider voting for the increase if it all would be going to roads, but even then I don't think I could pull the lever on another tax increase. In my opinion we are paying our city leaders too much, and we also have to look at how much we are paying for road repair, etc. For example, on the local news two years ago it was reported it costs $300-$700 to fill a pothole in Toledo. So a tiny little pothole costs $300 to fill. That's the type of thing that leaves a city's finances in dire straights.

residingjhere, I've never known anyone to love this city more than my father, and I can understand why since I know how great of a childhood he had, along with a good paying career which afforded him the ability to live in a good neighborhood, etc., but since my experience hasn't been as great I guess that's part of the reason I moved away once, and may do so again if I outlive my parents who are 80 and almost 77 years old. I love the city but I'm someone who prefers more living space than a city provides, a decent house, enough land that my neighbors can't be seen from my house, etc. My father and I are opposites in some respects. In 2007 I moved back to be here for my ageing parents, not sure what I'll do, or more importantly what I'll be able to afford to do if they die before I do, especially since other people won what was to be my Powerball jackpot.
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Old 01-17-2016, 09:38 AM
 
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all toledo needs to do BEFORE it turns into a big problem is get sheriffs to replace the TPD. and add about 30 more cops. it has proven to be very effective in larger cities.
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Old 01-17-2016, 07:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioJB View Post
I agree it would be easier to consider voting for the increase if it all would be going to roads, but even then I don't think I could pull the lever on another tax increase. In my opinion we are paying our city leaders too much, and we also have to look at how much we are paying for road repair, etc. For example, on the local news two years ago it was reported it costs $300-$700 to fill a pothole in Toledo. So a tiny little pothole costs $300 to fill. That's the type of thing that leaves a city's finances in dire straights.

residingjhere, I've never known anyone to love this city more than my father, and I can understand why since I know how great of a childhood he had, along with a good paying career which afforded him the ability to live in a good neighborhood, etc., but since my experience hasn't been as great I guess that's part of the reason I moved away once, and may do so again if I outlive my parents who are 80 and almost 77 years old. I love the city but I'm someone who prefers more living space than a city provides, a decent house, enough land that my neighbors can't be seen from my house, etc. My father and I are opposites in some respects. In 2007 I moved back to be here for my ageing parents, not sure what I'll do, or more importantly what I'll be able to afford to do if they die before I do, especially since other people won what was to be my Powerball jackpot.
Just wanted to note that in regards to pot holes and road work, it is just expensive and that really doesn't have anything to do with the city itself.

I worked in contracting for both public and private sector organizations in GA and to do any sort of asphalt repair it is thousands upon thousands of dollars. We did a small parking lot in a metro Atlanta suburb and ti was over $80k, so $300-$700 for a pot hole really isn't that expensive knowing what I know about asphalt repair.

I would expect that if we fixed all the major arteries here in Toledo it will cost tens of millions of dollars, maybe even a hundred million if we fixed all the older side streets and paved the streets that are still brick in the city. I live on the north end and my street is still a brick street. I personally like how the brick looks but it is more expensive to fix a brick street than an asphalt street.

ETA: And I totally understand the desire to live in a less congested/restricted urban area. I know a lot of folks I went to high school with have moved to Michigan or suburban Columbus for the reasons you stated. Many also did like I did and moved down south. I always had an acre of land at my homes for the most part down south and it was nice not to have close neighbors but I also like walking on sidewalks and there weren't consistent sidewalks and nothing within walking distance. I figured that is why southern states rank higher on the obesity scale lol. Less walking. Since moving back here to Toledo, I have a lot of stores and general places within walking distance. I live near St. Vs and even walked there to visit relatives/friends when they were in the hospital. I like walking around down town and I am enjoying having close neighbors again. I am very lucky to live on a very nice, short street and I know all my neighbors and all of them (save one rental house) are nice, decent, great people. Most have lived in the same house 20+ years so lots of stability and very quiet. I think there is more of a community feel in an urban environment, but I understand the desire to just have some space and I hope you can get that since you want it in the future.
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