Toledo

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by vader

Just to dispell a few myths here.

Toledos population has been declining along with almost every urban area in the Midwest and Northeast, its not unique to Toledo. Even New Yorks population is in decline. Secondly Toledos peak population count was around 650k in the 1920 not 1995 as someone suggest. The city has actually done better than averge in mantaining its popualtion compared to other Midwestern and especially Northeastern cities.

The auto industy is basically gone and isnt coming back, blame globalization. Toledo just happened to be heavily invested in a unstable sector. Toledos economy will turn into a service economy like southern cities are now which basically means a lot more education but probably less pay. With that said Toledo still has a stronger than average manufacturing sector. GM has just invested an additional half billion dollars to expand thier operation here with constrution to begin soon. Toledo as of the momemt has the lowest utility rates in the state of Ohio (although they are about to be raised). Lastly there is a projected 11 million defict not 19mill. Im not a Toledo booster because the city isnt all sunshine and rainbows, but I hate when people dramatically distort the facts.

I would agree with alot of suggested areas (Maumee/Perrysburg) but dont automatically dismiss places in Toledo. There are some nice places within city limits.

Very well said. Even "Rust-Belt" cities that are apparently beginning to rebound after years of decline, such as Scranton, PA, Syracuse, NY, Canton, OH, and Peoria, IL are still shedding residents at a rapid pace. Part of the problem is the "harsh" climate in the Rust-Belt as compared to the Sunbelt. I've witnessed people in my own subdivision relocating to FL, NC, and CA to locate "better weather." Does this mean that everywhere that is declining in population is a "dump." Not at all. In fact, Scranton just welcomed a variety of new art galleries, loft apartments, Starbucks, etc. into its limits within the past year or two as its own SoHo-style cultural renaissance, partially fueled by the success of "The Office" is underway.

In my opinion, the Sunbelt is growing far too quickly for its own good. Desert boom towns such as Phoenix, Las Vegas, Tucson, Albuquerque, El Paso, and Dallas/Fort Worth can only grow so much more before they begin to experience problems with water shortages. The Colorado River is being tapped out so much so to the extent that it now barely trickles down into Mexico. People may like the notion of 320 days of sunshine per year, but they will not like being asked to ration water. I foresee many of these people moving North again at some point, during which places like Toledo will finally see positive net migration. The desert southwest was never meant to be habitable by millions of people.

[theace]

Originally Posted by ScrantonWilkesBarre

Very well said. Even "Rust-Belt" cities that are apparently beginning to rebound after years of decline, such as Scranton, PA, Syracuse, NY, Canton, OH, and Peoria, IL are still shedding residents at a rapid pace. Part of the problem is the "harsh" climate in the Rust-Belt as compared to the Sunbelt. I've witnessed people in my own subdivision relocating to FL, NC, and CA to locate "better weather." Does this mean that everywhere that is declining in population is a "dump." Not at all. In fact, Scranton just welcomed a variety of new art galleries, loft apartments, Starbucks, etc. into its limits within the past year or two as its own SoHo-style cultural renaissance, partially fueled by the success of "The Office" is underway.

In my opinion, the Sunbelt is growing far too quickly for its own good. Desert boom towns such as Phoenix, Las Vegas, Tucson, Albuquerque, El Paso, and Dallas/Fort Worth can only grow so much more before they begin to experience problems with water shortages. The Colorado River is being tapped out so much so to the extent that it now barely trickles down into Mexico. People may like the notion of 320 days of sunshine per year, but they will not like being asked to ration water. I foresee many of these people moving North again at some point, during which places like Toledo will finally see positive net migration. The desert southwest was never meant to be habitable by millions of people.

The problem is many of the people don't want to sit around making sub par incomes waiting or should I say wasting 5 to 10 years hopeing the economy will recover! Move to the money, you can always move back.

[micrguy]

When I lived in Arizona I often wished about moving back to Toledo where I grew up or Harrisburg where my wife went to grad school - NOT! I am so glad my parents had the foresight to leave the industrial wastelands of the midwest when they did. Ohio and PA are places that you could not convince me to move back to, no matter what. I doubt that we will ever see a northern migration to the rust belt in our lifetime. People relocate either for lifestyle or financial reasons and there is nothing in Toledo that will draw people to it.

The only thing that I have seen positive in Toledo is that you can get a decent house very, very cheap. The neighborhood that I grew up in is a decent neighborhood and you can still buy a house there for around $100,000. You can even get a house in Ottawa Hills for between $200-300,0000 which would cost you at least $500,000 in any other city. Just don't expect to make any money from home appreciation in Toledo. My parents sold their house in 1984 for $60,000 and that house is now valued at about $105,000. $45,000 in appreciation over 23 years is a lousy return, I made $45,000 in appreciation in just one year in Arizona.

[theace]

Originally Posted by micrguy

When I lived in Arizona I often wished about moving back to Toledo where I grew up or Harrisburg where my wife went to grad school - NOT! I am so glad my parents had the foresight to leave the industrial wastelands of the midwest when they did. Ohio and PA are places that you could not convince me to move back to, no matter what. I doubt that we will ever see a northern migration to the rust belt in our lifetime. People relocate either for lifestyle or financial reasons and there is nothing in Toledo that will draw people to it.

The only thing that I have seen positive in Toledo is that you can get a decent house very, very cheap. The neighborhood that I grew up in is a decent neighborhood and you can still buy a house there for around $100,000. You can even get a house in Ottawa Hills for between $200-300,0000 which would cost you at least $500,000 in any other city. Just don't expect to make any money from home appreciation in Toledo. My parents sold their house in 1984 for $60,000 and that house is now valued at about $105,000. $45,000 in appreciation over 23 years is a lousy return, I made $45,000 in appreciation in just one year in Arizona.

I don't have all the answers as to why Toledo is in such a horrible downward spiral but the facts are it is! The housing costs here are cheap but utilitys are high when you take in to consideration how low most of the jobs here pay. Maybe there is a turn around coming here but when your 40 and trying to raise a family it's not a smart decision to stay and hope things turn around when you can see better oportunitys inother places.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by theace

The problem is many of the people don't want to sit around making sub par incomes waiting or should I say wasting 5 to 10 years hopeing the economy will recover! Move to the money, you can always move back.

You bring up a very valid point, and I agree with you. I tend to have a bit more optimism (okay, perhaps a LOT more) because I'm only twenty-years-old and will likely live to see the day when cities such as Toledo, Dayton, Akron, Erie, Pittsburgh, and Scranton are showing small (yet noticeable) increases in population again. Will it happen in the next 5-10 years? No. (Perhaps with the exception of Scranton where NYers are now flooding to in droves for cheap real estate). If I were 45, married, and had three mouths to feed, working in retail with my Master's Degree earning $25,000 in Toledo might not be too appealing. As a 20-year-old, I'm willing to endure getting paid less than what I'd be paid in most other similarly-sized markets because I see potential in the local environment improving sooner rather than later for me. For those of you who are middle-aged, your gripes are justified; your cities won't rebound greatly until you're out of the workforce and enjoying your last few years of retirement. To those of us who were born in the 1980s-1990s, the sky truly is the limit for what we want our cities to become.

I know a lot of the old-timers on here are probably thinking "To be young and to have naive dreams again," but, just like Paintballer, I happen to be extremely interested and knowledgeable in many urban planning-related issues. As such, I can foresee future trends and get excited by what is to come (or prepare for the worst). Here in Scranton, I'm excited that I believe our population will be growing again between the 2010 and 2020 U.S. Censuses thanks largely to an influx of residents from NY/NJ seeking affordable housing, at a time when I'll be in my thirties and at the peak of my life. At the same time, I'm bracing myself for what will likely be a very sharp increase in our cost-of-living during that same period, so I hope to have my home purchased by 2010 or sooner, if possible, to be able to land a reasonably-priced home before we become a "bubble market." To prepare for that, I'm working my rear-end off at my job and have chosen a rather lucrative career path that will afford me the opportunity to accomplish my goal of home-ownership within two years after college graduation.

I just wish this forum had more members in my age category; we're the ones who truly can reshape the futures of places like Toledo, yet, unfortunately, many of my peers are just downright apathetic towards politics, urban planning, the environment, foreign issues, and many other pressing issues that fascinate me. I'm happy to have so many middle-aged friends on this forum, but, at the same time, if you're 50, you're not going to have the same amount of energy and enthusiasm to rebuild an entire city as a 20-year-old!

[theace]

Scranton,

I wish the youth in Toledo had your energy, I really don't like the idea of relocating my wife and kids but they deserve the best I can give them and unfortunately it isn't offered here!

[destoria]

I recommend Perrysburg or Maumee

[Steve from Toledo]

Obviously strictly based on location...Lambertville or Temperance. Trust me that you will not want to drive to Alexis and Jackman from Perrysburg or Maumee.

Those are nice small little towns that are within 8 miles of the Alexis and Jackman area.

[Cassidy]

I guess it all depends on where you are in life, what opportunities you have created for yourself, and what you are willing to hold onto. I am not trying to insult anyone, but I believe in taking the bull by the horns for the things that are an integral part of my life. If you love Toledo and don't want to leave, then why would you? You may have to re-evaluate you career choice (auto industry) to get what you want and be innovative on your desicion making. Now, if you were never a lover of Toledo (and an active part of the community), by all means find that place that you feel you can call "home". I describe myself the same as an earlier post, I'm an optomistic. I will not point out the negative without providing solutions if I have a keen intrest on the topic. Where I work, there is a definate threat of permanent lay-offs but the threat has been present since 2001 and could be a reality as soon as 2008. I returned back to school and will soon be finishing my masters degree. One of my closest friends at work (husband and father of 2) absolutely hated college and refuses to go back. I truely worry about him since the writing is on the wall and our job is usually 500 applicants for 1 position. Whatever you choose, I truely wish you the best of luck.