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cheaper houses / safe / good community (preferably diverse) / good public schools / good health care / cheaper insurance/ cheaper property tax..
and within 1 hour 30 mins drive.. the closer the better ofcourse... there are so many area in GTA.. and they are darn expensive.. a decent house is 400k+ ... im looking for something with a driveway/garage/pool/more than 2 bedroom/ 1 bathroom for less than 200k ... and ofcourse the rest listed above..
Sounds like you are looking for the perfect place...aint gonna happen..
If you want to live in cheap areas its probably where the other financially challenged people that you want to get away from are probably going to be living..
Hour and a half commute in rush hour is probably going to be still in the greater Toronto area unless you work off hours.
You might want to explore Guelph,Cambridge, Kitchener/Waterloo, heck of a commute but gets all the other boxes checked..
Pay close attention to where the trains are in any place you consider moving as commuting by public transit may become the preferable option after a year or less of dealing with TO's traffic.
I never lived in Hamilton but I'm skeptical that crime would be an issue there. According to 2004 crime statistics, Hamilton is safer than the CMAs of Montreal, Edmonton, Vancouver and Winnipeg, relatively comparable to the CMAs of Calgary, Quebec City, Ottawa and Toronto. The city had a downturn with the loss of industry a few decades ago, and the downtown could use some sprucing up, and like all cities, it has some areas with prostitution/drugs, but overall, I think it's the best you'll get for $200,000.
Hamilton, taken as a whole, is a beautiful city. Yes, there are "dodgy" areas but nowhere I would consider unsafe. However, the commute to Toronto will be pretty horrendous unless you take the GO train, which is pretty expensive (but then again, gas is expensive too). You also have to keep in mind, this being Canada and not the England, that 1 and a half hours away could easily turn into 4 hours away when a big snowstorm comes in. You would be better off finding a cheap townhouse in Scarborough. There's even attached homes and townhouses in Brampton for around 200k which would be a better commute than Hamilton.
cheaper houses / safe / good community (preferably diverse) / good public schools / good health care / cheaper insurance/ cheaper property tax..
and within 1 hour 30 mins drive.. the closer the better ofcourse... there are so many area in GTA.. and they are darn expensive.. a decent house is 400k+ ... im looking for something with a driveway/garage/pool/more than 2 bedroom/ 1 bathroom for less than 200k ... and ofcourse the rest listed above..
There are houses that might fit your criteria in the cheap areas of Scarborough, like Malvern, Armadale and maybe Clairlea/Oakridge (safer and IMO nicer). Major benefit is only a 30-45 min ride to work.
If you want your dreamhouse for that price try further east, North Ajax however in rush hour it'd be around 1 and a half hours right at your limit. Decent area though, I'd look into it.
I don't understand how the math of Toronto home prices works.
The median home price now is over $500,000. The last data I could find on median family income put it in the $75k range. Let's say it's $80k for the heck of it. In Ontario that leaves $61,375 in after tax income. Even at today's historically low rates, the mortgage payment amortized over the life of a 10 year loan results in a payment around $5k a month. That means basically all your after tax income goes to house payments. Before real estate taxes. And life.
How in the world do Torontonians do it? It seems impossible.
Am I missing something here? I must be.
Last edited by qwerbilzak; 01-20-2012 at 09:22 PM..
I would expect the average income of a family that owns their home (as opposed to renting) is a fair bit higher. Also, the median home price might be $500,000 but the median mortgage is probably lower since a lot of people bought their homes when housing costs were quite a bit lower.
My parents bought their house for about $450k ten years ago and now it's worth about $900k. Their neighbourhood has increased in value more than the average neighbourhood though. They sold their old house for about $170k and similar homes on the same street are now selling for $200-250k, and this is a neighbourhood that hasn't gone up in value much compared to others.
These inflated costs are definitely a problem though. I think the issue is that they put in the greenbelt but limitted the areas that can be intensified so that intensification occurs mostly in the form of high rises which are expensive. The fact that many of these intensification areas only allow for midrises when demand requires high rises doesn't help. Allowing for more small scale low-rise intensification to occur in large swaths of the city would do a lot to increase the potential supply of housing and lower costs imo. You can get pretty high densities with 4 storey apartment buildings, or even townhouses and since it's wood-frame construction unlike highrises (and for other building code related reasons).
I would expect the average income of a family that owns their home (as opposed to renting) is a fair bit higher. Also, the median home price might be $500,000 but the median mortgage is probably lower since a lot of people bought their homes when housing costs were quite a bit lower.
My parents bought their house for about $450k ten years ago and now it's worth about $900k. Their neighbourhood has increased in value more than the average neighbourhood though. They sold their old house for about $170k and similar homes on the same street are now selling for $200-250k, and this is a neighbourhood that hasn't gone up in value much compared to others.
These inflated costs are definitely a problem though. I think the issue is that they put in the greenbelt but limitted the areas that can be intensified so that intensification occurs mostly in the form of high rises which are expensive. The fact that many of these intensification areas only allow for midrises when demand requires high rises doesn't help. Allowing for more small scale low-rise intensification to occur in large swaths of the city would do a lot to increase the potential supply of housing and lower costs imo. You can get pretty high densities with 4 storey apartment buildings, or even townhouses and since it's wood-frame construction unlike highrises (and for other building code related reasons).
Interesting.
What is "intensification"? Does that mean a population density increase?
I don't understand how the math of Toronto home prices works.
The median home price now is over $500,000. The last data I could find on median family income put it in the $75k range. Let's say it's $80k for the heck of it. In Ontario that leaves $61,375 in after tax income. Even at today's historically low rates, the mortgage payment amortized over the life of a 10 year loan results in a payment around $5k a month. That means basically all your after tax income goes to house payments. Before real estate taxes. And life.
How in the world do Torontonians do it? It seems impossible.
Am I missing something here? I must be.
I don't know either that is why I moved to Hamilton. And even your numbers above are optimistic, as taxes are probably 28-30%. I make 6 figures and houses are beyond my reach so I imagine that there are people making a lot more than me.
If houses were even $400,000 that would be pricey but I could do it. But from my experience, even if you see a house in a decent area that is priced somewhat within your means, the bidding will get it up beyond it pretty quick.
I don't understand how the math of Toronto home prices works.
The median home price now is over $500,000. The last data I could find on median family income put it in the $75k range. Let's say it's $80k for the heck of it. In Ontario that leaves $61,375 in after tax income. Even at today's historically low rates, the mortgage payment amortized over the life of a 10 year loan results in a payment around $5k a month. That means basically all your after tax income goes to house payments. Before real estate taxes. And life.
How in the world do Torontonians do it? It seems impossible.
Am I missing something here? I must be.
First of all, who gets a 10 year amortization anymore? Nobody.
Secondly, most people buying homes in the average price range are generally "move up" buyers selling a property closer to the entry level price point, and likely have some equity to put into the purchase so they aren't mortgaging the whole amount.
Thirdly, some people never buy, so if you take the bottom end of income earners out of the "average incomes" argument, the income/housing cost ratio starts to look much more reasonable.
Fourthly, somebody making $80,000 per year can generally qualify for a mortgage in the $400,000 range - so assuming a bit of a downpayment/help from family, a $500K home isn't that far out of reach. (Not saying somebody should max out what the bank qualified them for - but that's a whole other discussion).
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