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^ Americans love to live in their self obsessed world. If it doesn't happen on your soil then your probably clueless about it. Sorry to say, but that is the truth for the vast majority of the population. I have breaking news for you: The world is moving on and the US is falling behind. In a matter of 5-10 years, the US will loose it's crown for the worlds super power. China has three times the amount of people, India has almost four. They have the army power and the working power to dominate the economy. In case you haven't noticed... the US hasn't been doing well at all in the past 5 years. The US dollar is losing value all the time, consumer debt is astronomical, the government is on default and walking on very thin ice. Asia is overtaking the US and it's happening before our very eyes. What will Asia need to sustain their emerging economy? Resources. That's something Canada is blessed with. In the future you will see Canada continuing to flourish and the US struggle and eventually become just a slightly stronger than normal regular player in the economy only a little ahead of economies like France, UK, Canada, Germany, etc. I know that thought devastates many but it could very well be the reality. Toronto, being the largest city in Canada will continue to grow and expand, eventually becoming an even larger player on the global scale.
Also, regarding Montreal... I love this city! I agree they know how to party and the nightlife/weekend crowds in Montreal are just as good as TO if not better! It's a gorgeous city with a Euro flair. By 2016, Metro Montreal will have over 4 million people which is pretty impressive, while the GTA will be over 6 million.
The point I was trying to make is that people actually live in the city of Toronto! They don't all flock to the burbs at 4pm and leave the city deserted. With over 300 condo's being constructed right now in the GTA (180 in the TO boundaries)... this will only continue. Real estate value in Canada is based on PROXIMITY to downtown because that's where people want to be. Chicago is a huge city, I was never denying that. BUT... Toronto has more high rise buildings than Chicago and is 2nd in NA only to NYC which says a lot. The momentum on this continent for new construction is in Toronto. So while TO might not be a NYC, LA, or Chicago... it's well on it's way and 20 years down the road perceptions will be much different. Just wait and see.
You bring up some interesting (and good) points but they do not necessarily translate into Toronto being a major world metropolis anytime soon. As a Canadian living in the US, I can tell you that I can see how far behind Canadians are in terms of productivity, innovation, work ethic, and aggressiveness compared to US. And for its size, Toronto has underdelivered. If read about competitiveness, GDP, and growth stats, you will find that Toronto has among the lowest economic output per capita in North America when comparing big cities (and Montreal is embarassingly even lower). Not only do we have low incomes, we have a high cost of living due to high taxes, “overvalued” real estate, higher priced consumer products and groceries, and I think even gas is more here. Clothing selection is limited and cost a lot, take the subway and you’ll see how poorly dressed everyone is. I’m getting paid 25% more in salary with less tax deductions to do a similar job in Boston vs. what I did in Toronto in Finance for example. Toronto did not evolve with great urban planning in mind thus the subways and highways are crowded, adding more stress to everyday life. Look up your stats, Canadians now have a higher debt ratio to income than the Americans due to everyone dumping their life savings into overvalued real estate when real incomes haven’t gone up in a decade. Many people are making the same mistake as Americans in this respect and getting in over their heads. So many countries have been burned by consumer real estate speculation like the US, Ireland, Japan, etc., I’m really worried about what we are doing here. Ontario (and hence Toronto) are growing at basically the same rate as the US right now (both under 2%) so we are not booming. Didn’t S&P or Moody’s just downgrade the outlook on Ontario’s debt too? Canadian (and many Toronto-based) companies are very inefficient and produce the worst customer service (Rogers, Bell, Insurance, Banks, Retailers, Air Canada etc.). The businesses are all monopolies and have produced ZERO global brands of any stature because none of them can innovate and compete internationally - all they can do is milk the Canadian consumer for themselves. Ask the dean of my Toronto-based business school that I attended and he’ll shake his head when this subject comes up. You talk about our resource sector but the truth is that resources are still about 13% of the total Canadian GDP. I agree they will be in demand but the gains will mostly accrue to the West and not to Toronto. Sure Toronto will get ancilliary business but it is not a driver of growth that take Toronto up to say Chicago’s level. Did you know that Chicago’s economy is equal to London’s. So you are telling me in 20 years, Toronto will have the economic clout of London – no offence, but you are dreaming.
I’m not saying this to put down Toronto but to call a spade a spade. I would of liked to see the city step up more than it has on a global scale but it hasn’t. We should address these issues instead of trying to self-promote like a real estate agent selling a 400 sq ft condo. Now that I have another experience to contrast and compare Toronto to, I see it differently, and I see the good and the bad. The good is that we are relatively safe and we a wide spectrum of general amenities. We have more social services for the needy and make education accessible so we have a more even income distribution - good if your poor, no good if you are highly educated and wanna make money (not saying that's everything either). Overall, Toronto has a good quality of life that most people in the US or the world or even within Canada don't realize. But you have to admit that we have not produced world-class companies or institutions in Toronto. We produce good ones but not great ones, especially for a city this size. I can go on but your arguments of Toronto is on the cusp of turning into some mega city is not well founded. It is a big, good, regional city and it will stay that way but to join the club of NY, LA, Chic in 20 years ain’t happening. The only way you grow into that level is by and attracting talent from across the world, not just bodies, but best of the best, looking to work at the best places and be amongst the best people. It’s not about quantity, it’s about quality. Quoting population stats means nothing. Dehli has 20million people, doesn't make it better than Toronto as a city.
And if you are hoping for the US to go down, this will not be good news for Toronto, in fact a strong US is better for Ontario’s and hence Toronto’s growth. The resource rich west can sell to Asia but Ontario’s manufacturing center will become worse than it already is and that sector is designed to export to the US and our IT sector is falling apart. I think the West Coast of Canada is poised to progress more in the long-term relative to Toronto. I agree China will eventually be the biggest economy in the world but not as soon as people think because they are in a bit of a bubble right now as well and growth rates are currently coming down fast. To compare the US or Canada to what’s happening in Euro zone is not fair either. Germany is stable and strong but France and the UK have been and always will be laggards in modern times and we obviously know the rest of the EU can drag everyone in the EU down in the mud for decades to come. Say what you will but the US is still the most productive, innovative country on earth and they won’t change like a light switch just because they are shipping manufacturing to Asia. China will have produce world class companies and institutions and that will take a very, very long time to happen, if even in our lifetime. The gap is so much wider than you think, there is so much corruption and poverty there it’s unreal. The Chinese government has decided to cash in and make some money, but doesn’t mean they are ready to lead the world. Most the ideas still come mainly from Silicon Valley or Cambridge and that will continue to be true for a very long time. US is maturing as a country no doubt but so are we and relying on resources to stay even-keeled is not a good strategy either and will not improve our living standards by itself, especially in Toronto.
I will agree that all these condos (many of which are overpriced with poor craftsmanship) will bring people into the city and help make it more lively. I agree with that statement and I would agree it’s a good thing but it’s not driven by newfound wealth and business (like Calgary). Toronto has improved its amenities and restaurants over the past 6-7 years without a doubt and having more people downtown will help sustain that. But regardless, of the 5m people that are in the GTA, about 4.8m live in the burbs. They will always the majority as is the case in every big city, even if it becomes 4.7m in the burbs vs. 0.3m in the city. I’ve always thought Toronto had a lot of good nightlife but I don’t’ see a difference between Boston and Toronto in terms of liveliness. You speak as if the liveliness is so unique to cities in the 4m+ size but I find NY, Chic, Tor, MTL, Miami, SF, LA etc.. to all have people out and about in the evenings and weekend afternoons. This is not a huge differentiator. Toronto’s downtown will get better but don’t tell me it will rise in international prominence just because you see a bunch of cranes laying more glass and concrete. It’s takes more than that, there are many fundamental things that need to change. Put forth a argument based on fundamentals and I'd love to hear it out. Because I've never heard a good from anyone so far.
^ There's more to life than having big multi-national corporations. It's funny because everyone I talk to (and I agree), say that the US seems very behind compared to Canada. The infrastructure is old and crumbling, the business laws are very bizarre, the way they do business seems old school. Things just seem so much nicer in Canada, the atmosphere is more lively. The civil rights in the US are lacking majorly, the political parties are basically platforms for religious leaders, and the population is extremely conservative and socially backwards. In some senses, the opinions of Americans on social issues is about 40-50 years behind Canada.
Whenever anyone boasts the US, they talk about big business and how they have all these big companies and GDP, etc. But that model is failing... nobody can deny that. Time magazine said it best: While the US has been trying to chase the American dream, Canada is achieving it. No matter what scale you use... happiness, health care, life span, STD's, having sex, advancement on social issues, murder rate, education, or overall quality of life... Canada wins hands down on each issue. No matter what organization does the research, Canada continually beats the US on living a quality life. We get more time off, take more holidays, have more sex, get less diseases, live longer, etc.
I agree with you, the US kicks ass economically. They have been the powerhouse for the past 80+ years. Canada has ten times less people, we can't compete on that level. If you've had better luck getting a job in the US... all the power to you. I am happy for you! But don't try to put down Canada by comparing the lack of multi-national corporations.
^And where have you visited in the U.S.? Niagara Falls, N.Y.? Saginaw, Mich.? Ashtabula, Ohio?
I wouldn't bother trying to engage such posters, tribecavsbrowns. They are programmed to dislike America and to think of Canada as being superior in every regard. You would do well to remember that Canada was founded as the anti-America, and as a consequence, that irrational hatred toward the United States and that casual prejudice towards Americans is both well-entrenched and widely accepted in Canada. It's embarrassing, really.
I would say the comparison is somewhat impossible from a sociological perspective. By the way TO "looks" compared to US cities, there's a chance, but the vibe is way way different.
Of course Toronto's city isn't majority black like Detroit or Cleveland.
Herein lies the difference. African-americans are a unique ethnic group belonging to the United States. Toronto, on the other hand, has a very diverse and celebrated west indian/carribean population. I don't think you could compare.
Toronto's busy streets at night are in some part due to the fact that people actually live in the downtown core,there are places to go and things to do and an extensive public transit system to get people around. unlike many USA cities where the downtown cores have become just highrise office towers and no residential dwellings as the people all live out in the suburbs,the consequences for many American cities is they become ghost towns after busness hours.
Toronto's busy streets at night are in some part due to the fact that people actually live in the downtown core,there are places to go and things to do and an extensive public transit system to get people around. unlike many USA cities where the downtown cores have become just highrise office towers and no residential dwellings as the people all live out in the suburbs,the consequences for many American cities is they become ghost towns after busness hours.
Keep in mind Toronto is a very big city by North American standards. With a Metro of 6m people should this not be expected? So if you compare it to US metros of similar size, most of them measure up quite well for Downtown Vibrancy. NYC, Chicago, Philly, DC, Boston, SF, Seattle; are these not Vibrant cities where people spend alot of off business hours downtown? They sure feel just as vibrant to me.
Toronto's busy streets at night are in some part due to the fact that people actually live in the downtown core,there are places to go and things to do and an extensive public transit system to get people around. unlike many USA cities where the downtown cores have become just highrise office towers and no residential dwellings as the people all live out in the suburbs,the consequences for many American cities is they become ghost towns after busness hours.
there are American cities with busy streets on weekends and at night too. Let's not overstretch it to the extent that all American city centers are ghost towns - it is simply not true.
put NYC aside, Boston and San Francisco are both vibrant cities not losing to Toronto. Georgetown in DC gets extremely busy on weekends with thousands of pedestrians, maybe busier than Queen St in Toronto. Even downtown Los Angeles, notorious for its dead street after office hours, has made a come back and became much more lively. Gaslamp Quarter San Diego is another example. I was surprised by the number of patio restaurants on the street. Try to buy a property in downtown Boston/San Fran and you would know they are still very very desirable.
In Canada, only Toronto and Montreal can boast busy city life. Other cities such as Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton etc are no different from stereotyped American cities. Vancouver isn't that great either.
I would say in general Canadians cities are not that different from comparable American cities. Both have their fair share of busy pedestrian friendly cities and both have the ghost towns as well. American ones look deserted because there are so many more American cities than Canadian cities. How vibrant is Missisauga or Sasktoon exactly?
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