Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
[SIZE=3]Thanks for this very thought-provoking post as it strikes a chord with respect to this whole thread – comparing Toronto to American cities. No one has ever commented that Toronto is like any other Canadian city, only American cities. I, as a Torontonian living in the US, plead total ignorance to the rest of Canada. I admit that I have never spent a lot of time following local issues in other parts of the country but I do follow bigger issues of national significance (oil sands, trade disputes, francophone issues). Sure, I’d like to party it up in Montreal when I was younger, visit the rockies out west, and now that I’m more 'mature' (sort of), I wouldn’t mind seeing PEI/NFLD but when you are from Toronto, everything else seems small, slower and less exciting. Sure Vancouver and MTL are cool cities but they are still much smaller and it’s hard to build a career in either place. The next stepping stone for a mobile, professional Torontonian is more likely a US city as opposed to anywhere else in Canada, which brings me to my other point. Toronto is very Americanized in its values and interests. I feel quite comfortable living in a big Northern US city right now than I probably would living in Calgary or Edmonton or Vancouver or Montreal. Sure, there are always those structural differences vs. the US with respect to our government/business sectors, but Torontonians do lead a lifestyle which is more similar to our American cousins than our other fellow Canadians, no matter how anti-US many Torontonians may seem. Other parts of Canada are much more laid back and not as consumption focused. Torontonians are the ones keeping up with Jonses in Canada and feeding off the US for entertainment. I can see that. But there may be other reasons at play too. I think another factor is that the city’s Mosaic culture does not support a strong national identity and the way more pressure to be mainstream in a melting society would. I also feel like Canadians are more regional than Americans as most Americans have studied, worked and are more connected to other parts of the country. There are political undertones as well with Toronto/Ontario having the most votes and hence most political power to dictate policy which never makes everyone happy. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]But because of its population and lifestyle, Toronto benchmarks itself against US cities and has adopted an insular mindset with respect to the rest of the country in the process. We want the NBA, NFL, Hip-hop artists, Dundas square like a Times Square, a Ritz Carlton, lots of tall condos etc. just like big American cities. One knock I have living south of the border is that Americans don’t know much about the rest of the world (ROW). The news is 80% American and 20% ROW and the ROW news is usually war-related/natural disaster or the Olympics or something else of that stature. Don’t take me wrong, most of the intelligent, worldliest people I have ever met reside in the US but America is pretty insular overall and I think there are parallels in the way Torontonians think and treat the rest of the Canada. Toronto has not done much to distinguish itself from the US (it instead emulates the US) nor does it have the Canadian values and cultural institutions to really win the admiration of the rest of the country. If other Canadians do not like/are indifferent to Toronto because it is out of touch with the rest of the Country and has not earned its stripes as a centre of culture that all Canadians can be proud of then I understand it more.[/SIZE]
Very interesting post. I have lived in Vancouver and spent a lot of time in Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, etc. plus have lived in several US cities. Personally, I don't think Toronto is more Americanized than Vancouver or Calgary. Keeping up with the Jones is alive and well in Vancouver and Calgary. Acutally Calgary is closer to the US than and other city in Canada. Montreal is different. There has always been the east-west divide in Canada. That is largely driven by Ontario being dominant both politically and economically though not so much now. We don't have this same divide in the US.
Canadians have always complained about Americans not knowing anything about Canada. However, that is easy to understand because of the relative size and world influence of the 2 countries.
Canadians have always compared Canada with the US. I would be a rich person if I had a nickle for every time I have heard some of the ridiculous comparisons. I think that it is because Canada doesn't really have a distinct culture that makes them different. There are differences but they tend to be subtle. Therefore Canadians are trying to differentiate themselves. Of course Quebec is quite distinct.
[SIZE=3]Thanks for this very thought-provoking post as it strikes a chord with respect to this whole thread – comparing Toronto to American cities. No one has ever commented that Toronto is like any other Canadian city, only American cities. I, as a Torontonian living in the US, plead total ignorance to the rest of Canada. I admit that I have never spent a lot of time following local issues in other parts of the country but I do follow bigger issues of national significance (oil sands, trade disputes, francophone issues). Sure, I’d like to party it up in Montreal when I was younger, visit the rockies out west, and now that I’m more 'mature' (sort of), I wouldn’t mind seeing PEI/NFLD but when you are from Toronto, everything else seems small, slower and less exciting. Sure Vancouver and MTL are cool cities but they are still much smaller and it’s hard to build a career in either place. The next stepping stone for a mobile, professional Torontonian is more likely a US city as opposed to anywhere else in Canada, which brings me to my other point. Toronto is very Americanized in its values and interests. I feel quite comfortable living in a big Northern US city right now than I probably would living in Calgary or Edmonton or Vancouver or Montreal. Sure, there are always those structural differences vs. the US with respect to our government/business sectors, but Torontonians do lead a lifestyle which is more similar to our American cousins than our other fellow Canadians, no matter how anti-US many Torontonians may seem. Other parts of Canada are much more laid back and not as consumption focused. Torontonians are the ones keeping up with Jonses in Canada and feeding off the US for entertainment. I can see that. But there may be other reasons at play too. I think another factor is that the city’s Mosaic culture does not support a strong national identity and the way more pressure to be mainstream in a melting society would. I also feel like Canadians are more regional than Americans as most Americans have studied, worked and are more connected to other parts of the country. There are political undertones as well with Toronto/Ontario having the most votes and hence most political power to dictate policy which never makes everyone happy. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]But because of its population and lifestyle, Toronto benchmarks itself against US cities and has adopted an insular mindset with respect to the rest of the country in the process. We want the NBA, NFL, Hip-hop artists, Dundas square like a Times Square, a Ritz Carlton, lots of tall condos etc. just like big American cities. One knock I have living south of the border is that Americans don’t know much about the rest of the world (ROW). The news is 80% American and 20% ROW and the ROW news is usually war-related/natural disaster or the Olympics or something else of that stature. Don’t take me wrong, most of the intelligent, worldliest people I have ever met reside in the US but America is pretty insular overall and I think there are parallels in the way Torontonians think and treat the rest of the Canada. Toronto has not done much to distinguish itself from the US (it instead emulates the US) nor does it have the Canadian values and cultural institutions to really win the admiration of the rest of the country. If other Canadians do not like/are indifferent to Toronto because it is out of touch with the rest of the Country and has not earned its stripes as a centre of culture that all Canadians can be proud of then I understand it more.[/SIZE]
Thanks for the compliments. I would agree with the next poster that Toronto is not the only part of Canada that is Americanized. The thing is though is that normally the metropolis is the driver of all things X (insert nationality here), or at least it sets the tone for all of it. Toronto doesn't really do this.
In any event, none of this is really a big deal except to 1) Torontonians looking for cross-Canada recognition of their city's pre-eminence and 2) Canadians who are longing for a true ''alpha'' metropolis*like most countries have.
*I should acknowledge here that economically, Toronto fully plays the part of the metropolis. Perhaps moreso that NYC does in the U.S. even.
Very interesting post. I have lived in Vancouver and spent a lot of time in Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, etc. plus have lived in several US cities. Personally, I don't think Toronto is more Americanized than Vancouver or Calgary. Keeping up with the Jones is alive and well in Vancouver and Calgary. Acutally Calgary is closer to the US than and other city in Canada. Montreal is different. There has always been the east-west divide in Canada. That is largely driven by Ontario being dominant both politically and economically though not so much now. We don't have this same divide in the US.
Canadians have always complained about Americans not knowing anything about Canada. However, that is easy to understand because of the relative size and world influence of the 2 countries.
Canadians have always compared Canada with the US. I would be a rich person if I had a nickle for every time I have heard some of the ridiculous comparisons. I think that it is because Canada doesn't really have a distinct culture that makes them different. There are differences but they tend to be subtle. Therefore Canadians are trying to differentiate themselves. Of course Quebec is quite distinct.
I can only express my personal experiences but I find Toronto much more work-to-live than the live-to-work attitude found in other Canadian cities (like Vancouver and MTL) and the US more work-to-live in general. You may be right about Calgary, I lumped it in there but I don't know that much about the city as I've never even been there and don't much connections to it. Maybe it's something about the oil but they seem to be Canadian version of Texas for some reason, bit of Lone Star province. Coming from working in a large Canadian financial institution in downtown Toronto and now working for a financial firm in downtown Boston, I haven't experienced a "radical" change in my lifestyle. Sure, people watch more football than hockey, architecture is vastly different, people share some differing opinions on politics, people go to the Cape instead of Muskoka, etc. but the actual day-to-day life is very similar. Life would be different if I lived in Hong Kong or Sao Paulo or Dubai but this is North America we are taking about. I live in an apartment, take the subway to work, work late in an office building, go out to dinners and eat similar types of food, go out jogging, watch the same TV shows, listen to same music blah blah blah. Of course there are some differences but I just don't find my lifestyle here that different from Toronto as they are both mid-sized, regional business cities. Montreal is different, period, for obvious reasons. But I've always felt Vancouverites had a much more laid back attitude than Toronto and other big, US cities, were less materialistic overall, and had more distinct lifestyle. I can't even think of any major corporations out there except for a couple in the logging industry so I still don't know what people do for work out there to make $ to keep up with the Jonses. Everyone I know who has lived there said it was very chill but they all ended leaving because they got bored because it was too small and there was limited career opportunity.
Toronto is nothing like NYC or Philly or Chicago, Toronto is Toronto. People are blind if they think Toronto has no character, personality and boring. I love Toronto and I think Toronto is like everywhere else in the world. you go to restaurants in NYC LOndon or Paris or HKG, you can find it in here too. food is better in NYC or Paris?? than Toronto. Really??? your tounge and my tounge are different, how do you know if I think the best restaurant in the world actually in Vancouver but not NYC. Been to NYC a lot of times and stayed with my ex and you know I think NYC can be very boring city. Been to all museums with line up of course LOL but will I go more than twice to the Met or Moma? Maybe not. Been to Central Park, I think High Park is no different. Times Sq how many times should I go there every time I visit? Chinatown? is it different than anywhere else? Soho Tribeca and all the trendy areas in NYC, I rather go to Queen st West, walk in cabbagetown and st lawrence market and distellery district ( friends live there so go there a lot ) not over crowded and less tourists. One time I went to NYC I just stayed home. Unless we went out o have lunch or dinner, by the end of the day what you do in NYC is no different than what you do in Toronto.
Toronto and every cities in western hemisphere are like twin sisters, maybe one has more than the other. take a look at San Francisco, LA, NYC, and all over the places - all of them own Art galleries, yes NYC and London got better stuff but it doesn't mean Toronto or Chicago have less quality art. unless you know and understand art for average person like me as long I enjoy the art, it don't matter...
Most of People in Toronto do not care if they are compared to NYC or Chicago. but to give an idea to people, they often mention NYC or Chicago. why not? they are all big cities...
Toronto is quite unique (as are most cities) but if I had to compare it to US cities I would say it has some similarities to Chicago, Philadelphia, a smaller version of NYC? That's about all I can think of. Toronto is def closer to US cities compared to Montreal for instance which is in a league of it's own. If this thread was about Montreal... I would say there are no cities on this continent which would serve a similar comparison. Since it's Toronto though, comparisons can be made more to US cities. People in TO work hard, are less "happy go friendly super polite" typical Canadian stereotype simply because everyone is in a rush, dealing with traffic, and stressed about work. It's Canada's metropolis.
quote from NY times today "THERE’S something happening in Toronto. While so many cities lament the global economic crisis and the dulling effects of globalization, boutiques and restaurants seem to open every week in Toronto, and immigrant neighborhoods still feel linguistically, gastronomically, gloriously, distinct. The cultural diversity and urbanity seem limitless. But it’s hardly an urban jungle. Toronto is filled with lush, insistent greenery and an abundance of parks. It’s hard to imagine a better city to explore in summer"
that why i love this city but you can always change " Toronto" to Chicago, LA, Sydney, Melbourne, or many other places in the world.
I don't understand why so many Canadians feel the need to compare their cities with the US. They seem to have an obsession with this. Why can't people just accept each place for being what it is?
I'm sure it has been mentioned many times over in this thread already but there are many similarities between Toronto and Chicago. This is great for me as i love them both so it means i have double the enjoyment.
I'm sure it has been mentioned many times over in this thread already but there are many similarities between Toronto and Chicago. This is great for me as i love them both so it means i have double the enjoyment.
yes they are both on a lake, and they have some of the worlds tallest structures........thats it.
I have spent time in both Toronto and Chicago and have to say the two cities both feel totally different to me. Superficially they are both Great Lakes cities. Culturally, politically, ethnically and visually they are very different. Chicago also feels much older and has more expressways. Toronto has a very different ethnic mix.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
how many times should I go there every time I visit? Chinatown? is it different than anywhere else? Soho Tribeca and all the trendy areas in NYC, I rather go to Queen st West, walk in cabbagetown and st lawrence market and distellery district ( friends live there so go there a lot ) not over crowded and less tourists. One time I went to NYC I just stayed home. Unless we went out o have lunch or dinner, by the end of the day what you do in NYC is no different than what you do in Toronto. 
