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I am an ex-pat from the Greater Toronto Area. We moved to the Atlanta area in 1997. At that time our children were 2 weeks old, 7 and 9. We lived there for 13 years. Two years ago we moved to Charleston, SC> I have to add that Toronto is one of my fave cities. I LOVE it but hate winter!!!!
When we moved in 1997 what we noticed was how inexpensive everything, especially housing. When we first moved, we did notice a huge difference in our take home pay that might make up for some of the increased health insurance costs. We have decent insurance and have to pay some out of pocket expenses over the last 15 years but nothing outrageous. Now if something happens to one of us -- who knows what insurance will or will not cover. That's the problem here. You never know. Insurance companies rule the health care industry and even if you are with a great company with a great plan, a major illness can set you back considerably.
When I first moved to the USA I was struck by the differences in schools, even within the same school district. It is definitely based on socio-economic factors. It is true that downtown Toronto can provide good schools, while you would be hard pressed to want to send your child to an Atlanta inner city school but that doesn't matter. You wouldn't want to live down Atlanta anyways. AND...honestly -- I'm not so sure I'd jump at the chance to send my child to a school in Regent park -- I know sounds snooty.
We are living and have lived in southern states that rank in the bottom five for education in the USA. Having said that, my three boys have gone to AMAZING schools. Most likely wherever you want to live, the schools will be more than sufficient. Most of the time the schools you want to stay away from are in areas you want to stay away from.
While some funding may come from the province, the majority of funding for schools in Ontario comes from your municipal taxes.. Look at your property bill -- the majority of the cost is school board costs that are regional. They represent the largest portion of your municipality tax bill. It is the same here. Having lived in two different areas in the Atlanta area and moving to Charleston SC, it isn't difficult at all to find the better school districts. It is no different than finding the better community to live in. Most likely if a community is within your lifestyle and budget, the school will be a good one. It takes as much research to find the good school districts as it does to find the right place to live back in the Toronto area. It's not a big deal.
College is way more expensive here in the USA from what I have gathered. I have two kids at Georgia Tech and even with in state tuition, it costs way more than my family in university in Canada. There are more opportunities for scholarships in the USA than in Canada.
Cost of living -- no comparison. No matter how times we go 'home' we cannot get over the cost of living in the Greater Toronto area. Yes I know wages are higher, but so are taxes and EVERYTHING else. Property taxes, food, gas, travel, clothing, entertainment, housing, transportation, etc. is so expensive in the Toronto area.
Other pluses in Atlanta -- four hrs to the ocean, six hours to Destin, Orlando. Atlanta is a great airport -- so easy to get in and out of and provides direct flights to most places you would want to go.
I do miss the energy of Toronto. It is such a great cosmopolitan city.
Sorry I can't help you with Minnesota. Hating winter you know that I would not find myself ever considering that options.
You could be happy and make it work in either of the cities you have mentioned. They all have very different lifestyles though
well, consider this, the $500-600K the OP saved in housing cost is probably more than enough for him/her to send her kids to the best private school in Atlanta. So Toronto's public school being better or not is really not that important.
He won't need private schools for the areas he would choose to live in the Atlanta area. Just like he won't be living in Regent Park or Jane/Finch -- he won't be living in downtown or even midtown Atlanta.
Canadian schools ARE better. End of story. Americans love to be #1 in everything but they must accept that in terms of health care and education the US comes in a distant 2nd to Canada. All my US friends agree that the school system is flawed in the US. We have no bad schools here in Canada (compared to the bad US schools)... every single school in this country are funded EQUALLY. What isn't collected in property taxes is subsidized by the province. That cannot be said for the US. I've traveled all over the US and seen some disgusting downright dangerous schools. I've never seen anything that bad in Canada ever.
That cannot be said for the US. I've traveled all over the US and seen some disgusting downright dangerous schools. I've never seen anything that bad in Canada ever.
You tour schools on your vacations to the US?
How many years did you live in the US and attend public school? and how many children have you put through school?
^I have friends in the US school system. I don't sit in the Holiday Inn every time I visit the US. My good friend toured me around the schools in Ohio just a couple months ago. I was shocked at the conditions. One county had exceptional schools (very well off area) while literally across the train tracks where people were more poor had horrible schools. I also toured some schools in Florida (I own 3 condos here) and while there were some very nice schools, there were also some disgusting ones. I always talk with locals when I travel plus research always helps as well!
Stop trying to pretend like the school system isn't a problem in the US. Typical American living in never-never-land, in denial about the negatives in their country. Oprah has done a huge special on the US school problem on her show several times, and referenced Canada as a better model. The Economist magazine cites Canada as having one of the best public school system in the world, a model the US should follow. Just because you yourself have had a great experience in a US school does not change reality and stats.
^I have friends in the US school system. I don't sit in the Holiday Inn every time I visit the US. My good friend toured me around the schools in Ohio just a couple months ago. I was shocked at the conditions. One county had exceptional schools (very well off area) while literally across the train tracks where people were more poor had horrible schools. I also toured some schools in Florida (I own 3 condos here) and while there were some very nice schools, there were also some disgusting ones. I always talk with locals when I travel plus research always helps as well!
Stop trying to pretend like the school system isn't a problem in the US. Typical American living in never-never-land, in denial about the negatives in their country. Oprah has done a huge special on the US school problem on her show several times, and referenced Canada as a better model. The Economist magazine cites Canada as having one of the best public school system in the world, a model the US should follow. Just because you yourself have had a great experience in a US school does not change reality and stats.
So in other words you have zero experience dealing with a US school system. Driving around and looking at schools tells you absolutely nothing about how their students perform.*
I never once said there was no education problem in the US (please link me to where I made that claim) I said that Education is managed at the State Level, some States do it right....some don't! Look at the TIMSS testing standards (Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) - Overview) Some States outperform Canadian Provinces, some do not. In this case the OP is deciding between Minnesota, Georgia and Ontario. Minnesota scores highest of those 3, Ontario 2nd, Georgia 3rd. You see how this whole thing works now? Painting an entire country with one brush is incredibly ignorant.*
As far as using Canada as a model? I would much rather study Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Oh I am sure you will now tell me you drove by a couple schools on your Asian school tour as well* http://pics3.city-data.com/forum/ima...s/rolleyes.gif
Typical American? What a joke. First off I am not even American. I have spent just as many years living in Canada as I have the US. In total I have lived in 4 (if you count 6 months in Lebanon its actually 5) countries and about to relocate in the new year again to another country. So keep the typical tag to yourself. You are the one who comes across as "typical". Typical in the sense that you can't leave your sheltered little ignorant bubble and give anywhere else outside of "The Center of the Universe" a try or any credit. It is impossible for someone like me to relate to a person like you.
^ I sense some anger there haha. Somebody's back is up. Are you saying interviewing people is not a credible way to gather information? Any reporter would disagree with you. I am backing up my opinions with third party facts, including recent reports by the Economist magazine. I own homes in two different countries, and have traveled around the world. And of course SOME states outperform SOME provinces. BUT I am not breaking it down into states, provinces, etc. I'm saying OVERALL as a COUNTRY... Canada has a better school system than the US as a whole. That's the bottom line
^ I sense some anger there haha. Somebody's back is up. Are you saying interviewing people is not a credible way to gather information? Any reporter would disagree with you. I am backing up my opinions with third party facts, including recent reports by the Economist magazine. I own homes in two different countries, and have traveled around the world. And of course SOME states outperform SOME provinces. BUT I am not breaking it down into states, provinces, etc. I'm saying OVERALL as a COUNTRY... Canada has a better school system than the US as a whole. That's the bottom line
Anger? lol. You have no idea what anger is. I am speaking bluntly, nothing more, nothing less.
Do I agree that overall Canadian schools perform better? Yes I can agree with that. Afterall the study I linked to ranked Canada slightly above the US in quite a few categories. What my point is, how a country performs overall has absolutely no relevance. Unless of course you were planning to move from city to city and cover them all throughout your lifetime.
The OP is comparing 3 specific cities, do you not think that breaking it down to a local level is alot more beneficial to the discussion than comparing entire countries?
I'm saying OVERALL as a COUNTRY... Canada has a better school system than the US as a whole. That's the bottom line
The OP doesn't live an OVERALL life and his kids are not receiving an OVERALL education. He was specifically asking about Toronto vs Minneapolis/Atlanta.
Whether Canada has a better school system than the US as whole is irrelevant. Stop making it a Canada is better than the US issue.
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