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My wife is Canadian, and has landed a 6-figure job at the Toronto office of an American corporation. She has already moved from the USA to Toronto. I on the other hand have been accepted to the Shulich MBA program on a student visa, as I await my PR card (already in process for 9 months). I applied to Schulich because they had more flexible MBA programs and lower tuition. My wife will be working in Markham, so we plan to rent as close to York as possible. This should cut down on living costs compared to U of T.
I really did not want to go back to school, but it just makes sense at the moment. I have 5+ years of work experience and earned my CPA designation in the United States. Without a PR card, nobody in Toronto would interview me. I am not looking to get a highly competitive consulting or investment banking job when I am done. I would prefer to work in the aviation or oil & gas industry, and hopefully have a better work-life balance, as we plan to start a family soon. Most of my experience is in the aviation industry.
My questions is what is the reputation of Schulich in Toronto and Canada, and what is the their job placement like? Do aerospace related companies such Bombardier, Air Canada, etc. recruit from their?
Any Americans have any insight on attending a Canadian MBA program? My wife plans to apply for a transfer to an office location in a smaller lower cost American city in ~ 5 years once she has enough job experience. I am hoping a Canadian MBA will be recognized in the USA. Toronto is the only Canadian office location for the that my wife works for, so we won't be able to easily relocate within Canada.
I know you can point to charts and rankings but generally speaking, it is a Toronto-based school that is second tier to Toronto and Western. The entry requirements are very low so you will get what you pay for. I recommend going to UFT if you have to be in Toronto, as it is higher quality program and you only go once. With a CPA, one should be able to source a job in Toronto somewhere and probably get the same pay as a York MBA graduate, if not more. But also understand, unlike the US, an MBA is not a requirement to work somewhere in Canada. Canada is not as MBA-centric as the US, this is an American thing. Only in very few industries will it be a requirement. In fact, most MBA programs are comprised of foreign students, not local students. The credential doesn't hurt but don't expect too much from it in terms of big money, especially in this economy and in the Airline and Oil and Gas industries. Air Canada and Bombardier are both HQ out of Montreal I believe and I doubt they are doing well financially. There are O&G head offices in Toronto but the bulk of them are out west where they produce O&G. As for who recruits there specifically, I'm sure you can check their website yourself as they are littered with stats.
It will be an unknown school in the US so you won't get any kudos for going to York per se but they will recognize Canadian education as equal. In all fairness, outside of McGill and to a lesser extent UFT, no school in Canada has any reputation outside of Canada. Maybe UBC on the West Coast but not sure. People will hire you based on your experience and what you bring to the table at that point in your career so I would just focused on building your expertise and moving up the ladder for making a move later on.
I can't comment on the MBA aspects but commuting from york university to Markham may take a toll on your wife - I assume her job is somewhat demanding, and depending on where in Markham (new or old) you could be looking at a 90 minute one way commute easily via car assuming a 9-5 job. There is really no viable public transit option, imo.
Great info... it sounds like I should first try to find a job with my CPA and work experience once I get my PR card, and forgo an MBA. Cross my fingers that the immigration bureaucracy gets back to me ASAP.
The problem for me is that my wife wants me in Canada ASAP as we are currently living apart. I applied to York because I want to get into the accelerated (1 year) MBA program, and the student visa is the quickest way since it has been 9+ months, and they are still processing my PR card. It took my wife less time to get her green card in the USA.
After living in a few cities, I can say that the only schools with any broad name recognition outside of their region are the elite Ivy League schools. Most Americans have no idea what the Canadian schools are and vice versa.
I agree that U of T has better name recognition and network, but I did not see an accelerated MBA program and the cost was way more. Any other school is out of consideration, because I have to live with my wife in Toronto, and Toronto (Markham) is the only location where she can work.
I am debt free currently, and the York accelerated MBA would cost about ~$40K when it is all said and done. If there is little upside than I probably would be better off in applying for a job directly with my PR card when I get it… sigh.
$40K-$100K just seems like a lot of money for an MBA (High price in the USA and Canada). Are these MBA types finding jobs? Is the high number of international students graduating from these MBA programs in Canada viewed positively or negatively by prospective employers? I think this could be negative if these international students lack excellent English communication skills and cultural awareness. I just don’t want to end up being the bigger fool taking on a ton of debt that really does not open up as many opportunities as advertised.
The 407 toll road would also suck, but I see no way around that as we want to live as far from the high-price downtown as possible.
Great info... it sounds like I should first try to find a job with my CPA and work experience once I get my PR card, and forgo an MBA. Cross my fingers that the immigration bureaucracy gets back to me ASAP.
The problem for me is that my wife wants me in Canada ASAP as we are currently living apart. I applied to York because I want to get into the accelerated (1 year) MBA program, and the student visa is the quickest way since it has been 9+ months, and they are still processing my PR card. It took my wife less time to get her green card in the USA.
After living in a few cities, I can say that the only schools with any broad name recognition outside of their region are the elite Ivy League schools. Most Americans have no idea what the Canadian schools are and vice versa.
I agree that U of T has better name recognition and network, but I did not see an accelerated MBA program and the cost was way more. Any other school is out of consideration, because I have to live with my wife in Toronto, and Toronto (Markham) is the only location where she can work.
I am debt free currently, and the York accelerated MBA would cost about ~$40K when it is all said and done. If there is little upside than I probably would be better off in applying for a job directly with my PR card when I get it… sigh.
$40K-$100K just seems like a lot of money for an MBA (High price in the USA and Canada). Are these MBA types finding jobs? Is the high number of international students graduating from these MBA programs in Canada viewed positively or negatively by prospective employers? I think this could be negative if these international students lack excellent English communication skills and cultural awareness. I just don’t want to end up being the bigger fool taking on a ton of debt that really does not open up as many opportunities as advertised.
The 407 toll road would also suck, but I see no way around that as we want to live as far from the high-price downtown as possible.
I am not saying to forgoe this route for sure but I'm just telling you what I honestly think of York as a school. I see you are in Atlanta from your location so think about getting an MBA from Emory vs. an MBA from Georgia State / Georgia Tech / U of Georgia. You would fall in the latter in terms of prestige in the local market. That's all I'm saying. The latter do still find work and can have a good career, it all depends on the person. I was only advocating to spend the money on a better school if you can, it's the best ROI IMO. That said, your goals are different with the priority not necessarily trying to go the best school but to move and get a decent job. If you want to use the program to get in the country quickly and can do it in 12 months for just 40k, then that could work for you. You'll have your US experience + a local degree to market yourself with. International students with weak english skills usually don't get the best jobs but assuming you speak good english and are assimilated, this shouldn't be a problem.
You'd have to be here in Canada to get a job locally and if you are a reputable CPA with big names on your CV, you should have no problem getting something here as designated accountants are generally well paid in Toronto. I have no idea how long it takes to get a PR card, which appears to be a driver in your decision. If it's due soon, it would make sense to come to Toronto and try to source a job locally first. If no one is biting, then onsider doing the program as a back up. If it's going to take another year to get the PR card and you can't wait, then I don't think 40k for a masters degree is terrible option to move as long as you keep realistic expectations.
Schulich appears to be the 2nd best rated MBA program in Toronto after Rotman. Schulich makes sense for me because Rotman is too expensive and I got accepted into the 1 year accelerated program (that cuts the program cost in half) because I have an accounting degree and CPA from the United States. I also don’t have a quantitative degree like engineering, or have any desire to work crazy hours in banking or consulting, so I won’t be making anywhere near the top salary leaving any MBA program that Rotman would claim to give me access to to justify the cost.
What worries me about the Schulich MBA is that over half of the student body is from Asia (assuming its India, Pakistan, and China). That means that they are not Canadian students of Asian heritage, but Asian born-and-raised students paying lots of money to get an MBA at Schulich. Diversity is great, but Schulich is skewing heavily towards recruiting from one part of the globe, and not attracting much of anything else. The international student body from the rest of North America, Europe, Africa, and South America is very low in comparison. It almost makes Schulich appear to be a diploma farm for Indian, Pakistani, and Chinese that want a Canadian degree and the possibility to immigrate to Canada in the skilled worker class. It is hard enough to find a job in the USA or Canada; I think that many of these Asian students will be disappointed because of language and cultural barriers and go back to their home country.
The other issue is that the York University campus has a sterile and isolated vibe. The west side of the campus is the infamous low-income Jane and Finch neighborhood. The north side is the 407 freeway. The east side is dilapidated industrial buildings. The south side is the planned community of York University Heights, which is now all transient student housing. There is no cool trendy walkable area near the York campus as there is at the University of Toronto. York University is also not well connected to the TTC. It is also hard to find any decent apartments near the York University campus because of the demographics surrounding it. It basically feels like York University is on an island. Maybe in 2016, when the TTC Spadina extension is completed this will start to change, but I won’t be around to enjoy it.
Schulich appears to be the 2nd best rated MBA program in Toronto after Rotman. Schulich makes sense for me because Rotman is too expensive and I got accepted into the 1 year accelerated program (that cuts the program cost in half) because I have an accounting degree and CPA from the United States. I also don’t have a quantitative degree like engineering, or have any desire to work crazy hours in banking or consulting, so I won’t be making anywhere near the top salary leaving any MBA program that Rotman would claim to give me access to to justify the cost.
What worries me about the Schulich MBA is that over half of the student body is from Asia (assuming its India, Pakistan, and China). That means that they are not Canadian students of Asian heritage, but Asian born-and-raised students paying lots of money to get an MBA at Schulich. Diversity is great, but Schulich is skewing heavily towards recruiting from one part of the globe, and not attracting much of anything else. The international student body from the rest of North America, Europe, Africa, and South America is very low in comparison. It almost makes Schulich appear to be a diploma farm for Indian, Pakistani, and Chinese that want a Canadian degree and the possibility to immigrate to Canada in the skilled worker class. It is hard enough to find a job in the USA or Canada; I think that many of these Asian students will be disappointed because of language and cultural barriers and go back to their home country.
The other issue is that the York University campus has a sterile and isolated vibe. The west side of the campus is the infamous low-income Jane and Finch neighborhood. The north side is the 407 freeway. The east side is dilapidated industrial buildings. The south side is the planned community of York University Heights, which is now all transient student housing. There is no cool trendy walkable area near the York campus as there is at the University of Toronto. York University is also not well connected to the TTC. It is also hard to find any decent apartments near the York University campus because of the demographics surrounding it. It basically feels like York University is on an island. Maybe in 2016, when the TTC Spadina extension is completed this will start to change, but I won’t be around to enjoy it.
Congrats on decision. And it sounds like you have a realistic outlook given the current economic times. With a CPA and US experience, you should do fine and will likely land something above average compared to your peers. I don't know how many years of experience you have or where you have worked so I can't get more precise in terms of salary expectations. But a CPA on its own at manager level is 100k+ for sure.
Yes, the school has a huge international contingent but all Canadian schools do and the student population is reflective of Canada's immigration patterns. I'm sure everyone will be fine though but just make sure you focus on yourself first (i.e. job search). Don't put studying ahead of networking and looking for jobs. Marks don't mean much in a masters program and many students fall into the trap of thinking higher marks by themselves will get them interviews. The location is crap and the greater student population is dominated by suburban-types but its only 12 months and your out.
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