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Old 04-24-2013, 12:09 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 3,707,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
more sales taxes on top of the 13% HST?
Why not cut many of the stupid social programs to fun transit. We spend recklessly.
What "stupid social programs" do you think we should cut?

Canada is hardly a bloated welfare state or highly taxed by OECD standards. Quite the opposite.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
564 posts, read 1,038,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlsoNotMe View Post
Hard to blame Ford solely for Toronto's transportation #@$#@up when he's only been in office for under 2 years and Miller was Mayor for 7.
I don't think anyone blames Ford for the problem. But he is not being much of a leader when it comes to solving it.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:30 PM
 
51 posts, read 118,335 times
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Transit planning in Toronto has become a quagmire. What little we do get we put into useless projects like the Eglinton LRT because that is what Metrolinx (regional authority) prefer or quack Mayors who prefer extending the Sheppard line east to Scarborough (instead of west where it makes more sense, or if, at all) creating stall tactics.

If Toronto wanted to control its own destiny and not be at the mercy of the province, I suggest do the following. Sell the Gardiner and DVP to a 407 type conglomerate and use the proceeds to build the DRL (a subway along Don Mills, through downtown and out to Dundas West). I for one would welcome such a proposal.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:47 PM
 
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What's wrong with the Eglinton LRT? It's an area of mid-density and a good deal of street retail, seems like a sensible idea to build it.

(It would have been nice to have gotten that subway, construction began under the Rae govt., but then the Harris folks decided to fill in a hole).
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:25 PM
 
51 posts, read 118,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
What's wrong with the Eglinton LRT? It's an area of mid-density and a good deal of street retail, seems like a sensible idea to build it.

(It would have been nice to have gotten that subway, construction began under the Rae govt., but then the Harris folks decided to fill in a hole).
Where do I begin with this?

Firstly, it is of lower priority than the DRL in terms of necessity. So the fact we are diverting funds to it instead of a DRL is a problem in itself. Though this is Ontario money, and so of course strings are always attached.

Secondly. Eglinton is not all mid density. Maybe from Dufferin to Mt. Pleasant, but outside those areas it is Big Box plazas, Walmarts, parks, single family homes. etc. At least the much maligned Sheppard subway has 2 (actual) malls and a hospital that can serve as destinations.

Thirdly. Related to the first point, but the Eglinton line will act as a relief line to the Bloor subway which is not at capacity today. It is also sufficiently close to the Bloor line (and St. Clair ROW) so it will cannibalize ridership. It will also just serve to dump people on the already overcrowded Yonge line and cause crowding further up the line.

In general people want to use transit to get "downtown". Not to some transfer point along Yonge or whatever.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:31 PM
 
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I agree DRL is a higher priority. I just don't object to Eglinton LRT on principle.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Toronto
2,802 posts, read 3,847,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post

speaking of DRL, why would people be stupid enough to believe that the line will benefit downtowners?? I live in the very core, and how often will I need this line to go to anywhere on this line? For what? DRL is essentially a line dedicated to the suburban people who have to be jampacked into the Yonge line on a daily basis. It provides marginal benefit to downtown residents.
The DRL will indeed help downtown residents by taking pressure off the central portion of the Bloor-Danforth line (oh yeah, that's not "downtown" where you live, so is not really important), and also by taking pressure off the lower loop of the Yonge-University-Spadina Line. How will it do that? Think of all the people who take the subway down there just to catch streetcars at Queen, Gerrard and Dundas - a downtown relief line that ran on the planned route would make many of those trips unnecessary, thereby increasing capacity on that very busy portion of the subway.

For people like you, Señor Botticelli, who don't seem to leave the downtown core, you fail to realize that the DRL is going to ease gridlock not only in your neck of the woods, but in other equally important parts of the city that are not on your radar, but which have a combined population that is much greater than the downtown core.

One thing the DRL will not address is the packed trains heading north on the Yonge Line between Union and Steeles. An express line that was supposed to be built in conjunction with the original Yonge Line at the same time the Yonge Line was built (kind of like the 1 and 2 trains in Manhattan) was killed before it could be constructed (what else is new). However, under stations like Queen, there are the remnants of failed expansions which could be the starting point for building a much needed express line running from Union to Steeles.

I personally think Metrolinx's plan makes the most sense for the city we have and the money we can afford to spend. Sure it would be nice to have subways running all over every part of the city, but unlike New York, most of Toronto doesn't have the population density to support these subways, which will remain virtually riderless for decades to come (much like the Sheppard Stubway) while costing the city billions more than it could ever hope to raise. For this city, LRT makes the most sense to connect the boroughs to the downtown. The only place I could really see a feasible subway route is along Queen St. (which will be covered by the DRL along most of its most heavily-populated section, making a dedicated Queen Line redundant). Otherwise, right-of-way LRT will work just fine, even on routes with heavy ridership like Jane St. and along Finch.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:26 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 3,707,901 times
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Indeed...the areas of NYC that are most akin to the "boroughs" of Toronto in terms of density and urban form - eastern Queens and Staten Island - don't have subways at all.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:39 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,677,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
The DRL will indeed help downtown residents by taking pressure off the central portion of the Bloor-Danforth line
The BD line is hardly that crowded. the purpose of the DRL is to relieve pressure from Yonge line

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
and also by taking pressure off the lower loop of the Yonge-University-Spadina Line. How will it do that? Think of all the people who take the subway down there just to catch streetcars at Queen, Gerrard and Dundas - a downtown relief line that ran on the planned route would make many of those trips unnecessary, thereby increasing capacity on that very busy portion of the subway.
exactly what I mean - those people are from the suburbs, aren't they? Which means the DRL serves the suburbs more than downtown.
Downtowners don't need the DRL to travel within downtown. We either walk or the streetcars works fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
For people like you, Señor Botticelli, who don't seem to leave the downtown core, you fail to realize that the DRL is going to ease gridlock not only in your neck of the woods, but in other equally important parts of the city that are not on your radar, but which have a combined population that is much greater than the downtown core.
Again, you are talking about suburban people.

I am not against the DRL, don't get me wrong. It should be at the front of the line from day one, before Eglinton, extension of Spadina line or Yonge line. What I am saying is it is stupid for people to think the construction of this line is for the benefit of downtown residents and therefore the political obstacles. The fact that it goes from the suburbs right through the core doesn't mean it is more helpful for downtowners. It mostly serves the purpose of providing an alternative for the suburbs to get downtown without taking the Yonge line.

As to downtowners, we probably take it once in a while, but who the hell will take it from downtown to some suburbs on a regular basis.

The Downtown relief line is mislableld. It should be called the "rapid suburban commute line" (RSCL) to be more accurate.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:39 PM
 
1,635 posts, read 2,704,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
transit city is a half assed cheap solution to Toronto's nightmare.
I mean, more 501s and 505s will help move people? Take a look at Queen and Dundas. Transit City is a good start, but IMO should be killed.


speaking of DRL, why would people be stupid enough to believe that the line will benefit downtowners?? I live in the very core, and how often will I need this line to go to anywhere on this line? For what? DRL is essentially a line dedicated to the suburban people who have to be jampacked into the Yonge line on a daily basis. It provides marginal benefit to downtown residents.
I actually agree with you lol.
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