Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And yes, Ontario has a long history of voting poorly. We vote for McGuinty TWICE for example. This guy just stole $1.1b from taxpayers and left with his generous package and probably a $100/hour job offer as board member somewhere.
To be fair (and I'm quite unhappy about the gas plant cancellations too), this WAS NOT THEFT. This was vote-buying. And at least McGuinty went into the election with the promise to cancel the gas plants, and the opposition did not try to challenge this.
Ford did something just as bad if not worse. He managed to cancel a fully funded LRT in Scarborough to replace the existing RT with a subway. Why??? A $2B project to simply eliminate a simple train to train transfer?? Only a couple of wards benefit from this expensive convenience. Most of the rest of the city has no reason to travel out that way. So this too was vote-buying.
And at almost $1B to Toronto taxpayers to pay over 30 years! There's only 2.7m of us and of those, only the property owners pay the freight, compared to 13m or so Ontarians to pay for that $1B. How come he is getting a free pass? And now he wants to sue the city?? Respect for taxpayers?? My property taxes are up over 15% since the days of "tax and spend" Miller, and I'm getting almost nostalgic.
The $1.1b associated with gas plants are pure compensation for vendors. It is actual cash paid out of our pocket for absolutely nothing whatsoever.
The $1b relating to the subway is the price difference you pay for a subway vs a LRT. It is not a complete waste of money because that's the price for subways and subways are faster, last longer and provides more comfort (LRT stations are not Air conditioned, are they?). You can say Ford cancelled one project for a more expensive one, which is a different technology. It is a difference between saving money for a slower system and spend more for a better one. While the gas plant is 100% cash out of the window.
Totally different stories. One is like you paid $10k deposit on a house and then decide not to buy because you fear your husband will divorce you, and have to forego the entire deposit, the second is you paid $10k for a Kia, returned it and added $10k to buy a VW. How can they be different.
LRTs need to wait for traffic lights, are spaced too closely, and it is not comfortable to wait for them in the cold. You can't pretend it is the same as subways.
ok, suppose I am ignorant, enlighten me on how the law determines that smoking crack enables the city to remove a mayor while smoking weed doesn't.
It shouldn't be about how we personally perceive the severity of the violation. There should be legal basis for your argument.
If your philosophy is taken to its logical extremes, then a parking ticket should be treated the same as using crack cocaine. Ridiculous. There should be a comparative basis for these arguments.
Meanwhile, the message thta sends to the young people of Toronto is there is no accountability, so even in a position of leadership just do whatever the heck you want because there are no consequences.
BTW, if there is no resignation by Ford or impeachment proceeding by the Toronto city council a week from now, I will be posting some extremely critical posts directed at the Toronto city council along the lines of "All bark, no bite"! There is no reason for further delay. The mayor has responded like a whining child not wanting to be put in timeout. Impeach him.
^^^^ if we took most of what botticelli's says to their logical conclusion ... we'd be living in a very different world right now
Rob Ford is finished. He has been shamed on national and international TV by Toronto City Council members. This entire episode would be FUNNY if it weren't so sad.
... we have a mayor that professes zero tolerance on drugs, locks up people for drug offences - but admits buying them in the last two years.
The $1.1b associated with gas plants are pure compensation for vendors. It is actual cash paid out of our pocket for absolutely nothing whatsoever.
The $1b relating to the subway is the price difference you pay for a subway vs a LRT. It is not a complete waste of money because that's the price for subways and subways are faster, last longer and provides more comfort (LRT stations are not Air conditioned, are they?). You can say Ford cancelled one project for a more expensive one, which is a different technology. It is a difference between saving money for a slower system and spend more for a better one. While the gas plant is 100% cash out of the window.
Totally different stories. One is like you paid $10k deposit on a house and then decide not to buy because you fear your husband will divorce you, and have to forego the entire deposit, the second is you paid $10k for a Kia, returned it and added $10k to buy a VW. How can they be different.
LRTs need to wait for traffic lights, are spaced too closely, and it is not comfortable to wait for them in the cold. You can't pretend it is the same as subways.
I'm not convinced subways last longer, or would be faster in this case since wasn't the LRT going to be grade separated? So it's more like paying $10k extra for your Kia to have air conditioning.
If your philosophy is taken to its logical extremes, then a parking ticket should be treated the same as using crack cocaine. Ridiculous. There should be a comparative basis for these arguments.
Meanwhile, the message thta sends to the young people of Toronto is there is no accountability, so even in a position of leadership just do whatever the heck you want because there are no consequences.
.
still none of your guys are able to pinpoint exactly where the laws says the material difference between cocaine and weed. it is all subjective and blurry- that's not how the system works.
lack of accountability didn't start with Ford. The entire senator has no accountability.
I'm not convinced subways last longer, or would be faster in this case since wasn't the LRT going to be grade separated? So it's more like paying $10k extra for your Kia to have air conditioning.
stopping for traffic lights is the key here.
If a transit needs to stop for traffic lights, I don't consider it as Rapid transit. I don't care about technology, underground or above. It is the need to stop for traffic lights that really matters.
I'm not convinced subways last longer, or would be faster in this case since wasn't the LRT going to be grade separated? So it's more like paying $10k extra for your Kia to have air conditioning.
memph, I completely agree, subway here was a waste as the LRT would have used the same existing RT alignment which is already grade separated. It also has the downside that it will route former RT commuters towards Bloor or St. George to get downtown instead of Eglinton. So it will make the situation at Yonge/Bloor worse (for all Torontonians) and will make the Eglinton Crosstown underutilized so we will have another from no-where to no-where line at 5B. So I would argue the overall transit experience will be worse. Imagine all this money went to DRL that would have been a game changer for everyone in the city.
Gas Plants = 1B more than was necessary to be paid by hydro rate payers (i.e. "broad tax") + some property owner NIMBY's in Oakville/Miss/Etob -- who got bought off -- don't have to worry about property values + and we still get gas plants.
RT Conversion = 1B more than was necessary to be paid by Toronto property owners (i.e. "narrow tax") + some property owner NIMBY's in Scarborough -- who got bought off -- get their land values increased since being close to subway has more cachet + we still get grade separated transit in a corridor that already has it today.
Looks about the same to me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
