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View Poll Results: I am voting
Conservative 9 33.33%
Green Party of Ontario 5 18.52%
Liberal 12 44.44%
NDP 0 0%
Other 1 3.70%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-02-2014, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,102 posts, read 15,877,316 times
Reputation: 5202

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249 View Post
For the 1000th time ... I am not blaming anyone, especially not the Canada Post and TTC employees. I am taking about the system (in general) and I am only using Canada Post as an example of a government funded program that is squandering tax payer's money.
This is peanuts my friend - peanuts and won't make a lick of difference in the big scheme of things other than to make you feel better about it.. Meanwhile the wealth all moves one way and less and less is trickled down to the masses.

My view is that Conservatives are more in the back pockets of big business and the elite than Liberals and ultimately I will have some better services at my disposal with a Liberal government than a hack and slash Conservative one.
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Old 06-02-2014, 06:19 PM
 
1,706 posts, read 2,436,829 times
Reputation: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
My view is that Conservatives are more in the back pockets of big business and the elite than Liberals and ultimately I will have some better services at my disposal with a Liberal government than a hack and slash Conservative one.
Do you have any evidence for this? Say based on the sources of funding for Liberals vs Conservatives?
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Old 06-02-2014, 07:14 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,724,552 times
Reputation: 7874
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
the private sector employers in richer nations are increasingly shying away from being responsible and instead of paying a fair wage to their employees - they are becoming increasingly greedy and this needs to be addressed. .
People always talk about fairness. What is fair? Fair salary has nothing to do with how expensive living in the cities is. Fair wage means how much one's labour is worth is a fully competitive market.

I absolutely loathe the argument that because it costs $3000 a month to live in Toronto, therefore we should pay workers $3000 a month. You can do math like that. If enough workers are willing to do the job for $2000, then 2000 is fair wage. Fairness has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of living but everything to do with demand and supply. If without unions one can only make $5 an hour, then $5 an hour is unfortunately the fair value of this skills/experiences. One would be stupid to pay him $6.
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Old 06-03-2014, 05:42 PM
 
1,635 posts, read 2,713,065 times
Reputation: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajl22586 View Post
There is zero empirical evidence to support the idea that cutting taxes for businesses will cause them to hire more employees. Businesses hire to meet growing demand for their services or products, period.

Also, I don't agree with your claim that government jobs aren't "real jobs." I don't even know what you mean; so if a position is created with public funds, it's a "fake" job? Try telling that to a police officer, firefighter, or EMS worker.

The truth of course is that having a well-funded public service is actually GOOD for the economy. Government spending - within reason - is key to driving growth. Government employees have buying power, and that buying power trickles down throughout society when they purchase goods and services. Being in a situation where only rich people have buying power cannot lead to the same type of structural, sustained growth that you see with a strong middle-class.

I'll be voting for the Liberals. Why? Because even though they've made significant mistakes as of late, they are the one party I see as capable of balancing fiscal concerns with the government's commitment to providing for the public good. I do not trust the PCs with the above, and let's face it, the NDP simply lacks the leadership needed to govern.
Excellent post.
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Old 06-03-2014, 06:02 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,724,552 times
Reputation: 7874
just finished watching the debate. Wynne has avoided all tough questions directed at her, instead she keeps repeating "we will make the investment ..." probably 30 times, without any indication where the money for balancing budget comes from. She apparently refused to say she is going to make any cuts anywhere in order to do that.

why did you sign the document about cancelling the gas plant when you had a choice. No response.
what will you do to relieve people from high electricity prices. No response (other than OCEB) - keep in mind OCEB is temporary and only 10% and hydro price is expected to rise by another 40%. Why not say the Green Energy Act will be scrapped?
How will you balance the budget without any cut in spending and any tax increase. No response, which means there will be tax increase. She basically says because we are investing (spending) in this and that, the balance will automatically balance.

In transit, it is true during the past 11 years, Toronto didn't add a single rapid transit stop (yes, they are doing this and that now, but unfortunately, that's hardly enough for a party which is supposed to pro-transit).

Liberals will be the last I will vote for.
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Old 06-03-2014, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,339 posts, read 2,071,109 times
Reputation: 1650
Yeah Wynne really blew an opportunity there. I nearly fell over when she started talking about building a high speed rail link to Waterloo, jaysus....

I had an idea she was a complete dud as a debater, but to watch the totality of her ineptitude was really something. Horvath was even worse.

I voted on Saturday at an advanced poll, and nothing in that debate made me regret my choice...Green Party of course.
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Old 06-03-2014, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,102 posts, read 15,877,316 times
Reputation: 5202
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249 View Post
Do you have any evidence for this? Say based on the sources of funding for Liberals vs Conservatives?
So wait a sec - you are contending that the Libs actually get more funding from the private sector than the Cons... hmmmm

Last edited by fusion2; 06-03-2014 at 07:48 PM..
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Old 06-03-2014, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,102 posts, read 15,877,316 times
Reputation: 5202
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
People always talk about fairness. What is fair? Fair salary has nothing to do with how expensive living in the cities is. Fair wage means how much one's labour is worth is a fully competitive market.

I absolutely loathe the argument that because it costs $3000 a month to live in Toronto, therefore we should pay workers $3000 a month. You can do math like that. If enough workers are willing to do the job for $2000, then 2000 is fair wage. Fairness has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of living but everything to do with demand and supply. If without unions one can only make $5 an hour, then $5 an hour is unfortunately the fair value of this skills/experiences. One would be stupid to pay him $6.
I think I've spoken enough in here about why I think that we should advocate for those who will do a bit more to ensure that workers in Ontario aren't hosed by those who couldn't give a damn about the average person. If other voters think Timmy is the man who will make their life better and I am wrong than by all means I hope the man wins - having said that I feel strongly that Timmy will absolutely do nothing for the average person in this province, for infrastructure or transit development or overall in terms of creating an economy and environment that will support more good paying jobs. I think Wynne has a better plan that will actually invest in making our economy more competitive and I also think she won't screw up the balance like hack and slash Timmy. A more competitive economy with a more skilled workforce will ultimately bring more tax revenue in. Ultimately if either Timmy, Kathy or Andrea win I doubt life will change that much for most of us anyway for the better but I'm sure with Timmy in place for a good number of us things will get worse way way way before they get better.

3000 a month to live in Toronto... I live in DT Toronto and it doesn't cost that much to live here so not sure where you are coming up with that figure whatsoever.. Here i'll break down my expenses

Rent: 1050 per month for my one bedroom apartment at Jarvis and Wellesley.
food: 500 dollars a month max (not including restaurants that my partner and I can afford)
utilities: included in rent
High Speed internet, cable and phone 140 dollars per month
metropass 130 dollars per month for a total of 1690 bucks - everything above and beyond is discretionary and misc....I don't do Public Transportation though, I can afford a car so add the following

Car payment 350 dollars per month
Insurance 145 dollars per month
gas approximately 175 dollars per month

Total is 2360 bucks per month

I have a unionized position that pays a FAIR wage for the skill required in my position and net 4500 dollars per month and have almost 2 grand a month for discretionary spending... I invest in my retirement, spend money how I want and travel with the rest. My partner uses his money (about half what I make) to pay for some of our travels as well and takes me out to dinner/movies and other places and he also invests. I got my job when we had a Liberal government in office both Provincially and Federally- go figure!

Last edited by fusion2; 06-03-2014 at 07:59 PM..
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Old 06-03-2014, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,102 posts, read 15,877,316 times
Reputation: 5202
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post

Liberals will be the last I will vote for.
I think you have to accept that there will most likely be another Liberal government.. Don't worry... it'll be ok!
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Old 06-03-2014, 07:58 PM
 
1,706 posts, read 2,436,829 times
Reputation: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
So wait a sec - you are contending that the Libs actually get more funding from the private sector than the Cons... hmmmm
Hmm ... you quickly edited your response entirely. That's very dishonest. You previously posted that "this was a hunch, and that you have no real cite for this".

I am not contending anything - Libs vs Cons. You made a BIG claim. Please provide some evidence.
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