Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Chicago has 46 million visitors who are mostly regional ie from the Midwest.. Toronto gets more International visitors by quite a large margin ..
How many of these "international" visitors are actually Americans from the midwest? You can't tell me that 100,000 Americans folks visiting Toronto is more important than the same folks visiting Chicago because the former trips are "international".
It will be more convincing if you could show number of visitors from countries other than US/Canada to both cities who spent at least one night in the city.
^^^ In addition to pulling out Canada/US numbers, one other factor to consider when looking at travel stats is determining who is actually a pure tourist and who is visiting family. It's similar but different in many ways. Half of Toronto's population is foreign born so I would expect a lot of family visits from abroad as well. This is important from a tourism perspective because family will typically stay with family - especially when coming from developing countries - and will not shell out big tourist dollars on hotels and restaurants as much. I've seen it many times even in my own family. Not sure if there is a way to peel into these numbers to get better insight into the type of visitor and spending habits in different cities. To build a successful tourist destination, the city will need to attract those with money who will add dollars into the economy in a pure tourist fashion. Perhaps total hotel rooms or hotel rooms sold would be a another strong gauge of tourist attraction for a city?
Last edited by johnathanc; 09-03-2014 at 01:44 PM..
How many of these "international" visitors are actually Americans from the midwest? You can't tell me that 100,000 Americans folks visiting Toronto is more important than the same folks visiting Chicago because the former trips are "international".
It will be more convincing if you could show number of visitors from countries other than US/Canada to both cities who spent at least one night in the city.
^This link has a lot of info, charts and graphs for Toronto oversea visitor statistics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc
^^^ In addition to pulling out Canada/US numbers, one other factor to consider when looking at travel stats is determining who is actually a pure tourist and who is visiting family. It's similar but different in many ways. Half of Toronto's population is foreign born so I would expect a lot of family visits from abroad as well. This is important from a tourism perspective because family will typically stay with family - especially when coming from developing countries - and will not shell out big tourist dollars on hotels and restaurants as much. I've seen it many times even in my own family. Not sure if there is a way to peel into these numbers to get better insight into the type of visitor and spending habits in different cities. To build a successful tourist destination, the city will need to attract those with money who will add dollars into the economy. Perhaps total hotel rooms or hotel rooms sold would be a another strong gauge of tourist attraction?
This is exactly what I had said before in a previous thread. What is considered a 'tourist' to one person might be different to another person. I think different tourism boards, cities etc measure them differently.
Chinese tourists were 128k for Chicago and 143k for Toronto. Remember the Chinese community is much larger in Toronto than in Chicago, so the real tourists are probably more for Chicago.
And it may seem ironic to post in this thread....but I find it worrisome when my nation's most important neighbor's largest city is pouring flames on a bonfire that is about to explode. I suppose a housing crash in Toronto may not become something of national or international import....but it certainly won't help a fragile global economy. Seriously Fusion...would you honestly invest in a Toronto condo at this point? Are homes in the Toronto area really WORTH 3 to 4 TIMES superior quality homes in Chicago?
Really?
Here's an article from today....I wonder how many of these recently approved projects will be canceled? Cause when the states day of overvalued bubble real estate came crashing down, tons of projects all over the country were scrapped.
But I know, Toronto is different, there is magical pixie dust up there that makes it immune to the laws of economics....
Actually I rent to be honest and live in a building built in 1928 ironically enough lol....would I invest in a condo or not - no I wouldn't.. I actually prefer to rent, invest and travel.. In two days I'm headed to Barcelona and than onto Rome.... If I was locked down in a mortgage and associated fees I wouldn't be able to travel as much and my goal is to see the world when i'm young - not old. A condo is a thing and i'm more about experience.
I honestly don't know what is going to happen to the condo market in Toronto... Most articles I've read from Canadian economists is that the market will not crash. How much is it for a condo in NYC? Probably pretty damned expensive and a heckuva lot more than a condo in Toronto so maybe that Condo in a very dense and urban N.A DT core isn't such a bad deal after all when you look at some other places.. Toronto's core density in the next census -2016, not outdated 2010 figures will probably demonstrate that T.O's density has increased dramatically so ultimately it is a place people want to live - its turned into a HUGE magnet. Obviously people are concentrating more in the city than Chicago because 3 years ago your city had more people - now it doesn't. Sure lots of growth occurred outside the DT core in T.O - but from 2006 onwards something really shifted in this city and DT started to be the growth star in the city. What can I say, people want to live in the core... Do you want me to shoot them for wanting that because it doesn't meet with some CD members architectural requirements or because Botticelli or Midwest guy thinks its not worthy? Hey talk to all the people buying condo's and moving into the core - I can't help you or Botticelli i'm sorry.
I think a lot of people say a condo is a bad investment and everybody has friends who have had bad experiences blah blah blah - but at the end of the day for whatever reasons - people are continually buying condo's in the city so i'm just calling it as it is really - that Toronto has been building a whole lot more than Chicago and many many other cities (so don't feel bad) and if this continues I don't see why it is any stretch to conclude that the city will simply outmuscle Chicago for skyline in 5-10 years. Its simply by the numbers in my books - nothing to do with the subjective world of personal style and preference. It also has zero to do with any belief that Chicago is a has been city in every respect, but in terms of growth from my vantage point it has been lagging Toronto and that trend seems to be continuing - if things change than I'll obviously acknowledge that.
If you think i'm this big condo guy who wants to see the city build at all costs - well no i'm not but facts are facts and the facts in this case is that Toronto has been, is and looks to continue to build like gangbusters and a whole lot of people are buying and fueling it... it is what it is. What do you want me to do - go in front of developers HQ's and say stop building condo's because majuja from Chicago thinks Toronto's RE market is going to tank.. Should I picket in front of the big bank Hq's in T.O and say - don't give people a mortgage for a condo because majuja from Chicago thinks the economy is going to tank and is concerned lol....
How many of these "international" visitors are actually Americans from the midwest? You can't tell me that 100,000 Americans folks visiting Toronto is more important than the same folks visiting Chicago because the former trips are "international".
It will be more convincing if you could show number of visitors from countries other than US/Canada to both cities who spent at least one night in the city.
Toronto had 1.42 million visitors from overseas in 2013 for various reasons - as would Chicago's Overseas visitors.. Last I looked Americans are International visitors when they come to Canada seeing as Canada is apparently a different country and 2.18 million was the number and they stayed Overnight for a total of 3.6 million International Visitors - so yes Toronto gets many more International visitors than Chicago.. Chicago gets more overall visitors for good reasons - its obviously a great city - as is Toronto but it also 'the big' city in a much more heavily populated region than Toronto.. What do we have in terms of 1 million plus cities in Canada within a few hours drive - Ottawa and Montreal.. Look at Chicago and how many cities are close to it with over 1 million peeps - stands to reason its going to get more overall visitors but neither city is exactly a tourist superstar for overseas visitors lol.. As much as you're enamoured with Chicago and think it is the centre of not just the universe but multiverse - it as well as Toronto don't really attract a whole lot of International tourists unlike so many other alpha class Global cities that do. I'll get over that fact for Toronto if you get over that fact for Chicago - somehow I think you as a Chicago homer will have a much harder time with it than myself as I am far more balanced and objective..
Keep an eye on the number of Asian visitors to Toronto in the next few years btw - We've done a lot to attract Asian Carriers to the city ie Hainan, EVA and China Eastern's recent entry into our airport market.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
