Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
One thing that I notice is TO does not have enough outdoor dining and patios. They also do not have enough pedestrian only areas cut off from car traffic, which encourage people to freely be out and about. I think more of that would go a long way towards adding to that vibrancy. The city is big enough and populated enough, you should feel it immediately based on population alone.
Precisely.
All "vibrant" cities have car free retail streets, often big ones. I was amazed by how long the pedestrian only streets in Rome and Istanbul were during my trip last month. If the same policy adopted, the entire Queen and Bloor from Yonge to Ossington would be car free, and Yonge from Bloor to Front as well. Yet barring a few small stretches about 50 meters long, there is not a single decent pedestrian only street in Toronto.
People keep talking how walkable downtown Toronto has become. really? For me, the car is still the king. The fact they keep running on Queen even between University and Bathurst proves that.
As to patio restaurants, smaller cities like Montreal put us in shame. Istanbul's outdoor dining scene was simply spectacular, something I just learned. In Toronto, there are so few of them, because the streets belong to the cars, who will get "angry" if one or two lanes are taken. I mean, shouldn't wide streets such as University and Jarvis be lined with patio restaurants in the summer? Nope, they serve as essentially semi-highways from cars from Rosedale and Forest Hill. This is how vibrant Toronto really is.
I get that we are speaking about a Canadian city here, which like US cities have to be graded on a curve because they are all so car centric in nature. I get that is our culture and its not changing anytime soon. So the cities mentioned by Bot will always be in another class, because they just do vibrancy better than us in North America, except for Mexico which is world class when it comes to street level activity.
There is absolutely no reason why Toronto should not be better or comparable to every other city not named NYC. Jonathan mentioned Montreal and Boston. I would also add Philly and SF (which I would rank ahead of MTL and BOS as well). When you visit those cities you see people living their lives on the street on a daily basis. Maybe it is because in SF and BOS people are so accustomed to living in overpriced sh*tty cramped housing, that they want to be anywhere but their apartment. Toronto has some pretty great places for short money. Or maybe they just set up public squares better? That could also be a factor.
One thing that I notice is TO does not have enough outdoor dining and patios. They also do not have enough pedestrian only areas cut off from car traffic, which encourage people to freely be out and about. I think more of that would go a long way towards adding to that vibrancy. The city is big enough and populated enough, you should feel it immediately based on population alone.
Philly? I have to ask why.
You're right. Toronto feels boring to the average tourist because everything is spread out and the action is hidden to a large extent. This is quite different from cities like Montreal which have large open areas with restaurants, bars, etc all clustered together (tourist friendly?).
Toronto has great bars and restaurants but those are not visible to a tourist who is walking around Dundas Square (for example). One really needs to be with a local or dig into Yelp type sites to truly find hidden gems.
Toronto does not have outdoor dining probably because it is too cold for more than half the year. What also stands out in Toronto is the lack of tourists. Go to a place like Chicago anytime of year and you will see 1000s of shutter happy tourists all around. The same can be said about Montreal.
You're right. Toronto feels boring to the average tourist because everything is spread out and the action is hidden to a large extent. This is quite different from cities like Montreal which have large open areas with restaurants, bars, etc all clustered together (tourist friendly?).
Toronto has great bars and restaurants but those are not visible to a tourist who is walking around Dundas Square (for example). One really needs to be with a local or dig into Yelp type sites to truly find hidden gems.
Toronto does not have outdoor dining probably because it is too cold for more than half the year. What also stands out in Toronto is the lack of tourists. Go to a place like Chicago anytime of year and you will see 1000s of shutter happy tourists all around. The same can be said about Montreal.
I just read my post again and it sounded like I was ranking Philly over those other cities, I more meant they are a peer of those cities based on street level activity. I think Philly does a nice job of outdoor dining, the market district has some pretty cool pedestrian only areas and Centre city is also great. I know it has its rough parts, but the mix of aesthetics and historic housing, mixed with street level activity is pretty cool from my limited time spent there.
I don't think Toronto is the greatest city for a tourist, but I wouldn't call it bad either. In the age of the Internet, no tourist should be excused from digging into a city and finding good spots. I am a former resident, so I know the city pretty well and have my favorite places, so it isn't as if there is a lack of things to do there.
It is more the vibe that I am referring to and weather is really no excuse. Colder climate cities open up their patios basically the entire year minus the dead of winter. There are ways to keep them running later on in the year (heating systems, covered seating, etc..) that I have seen used countless times in other cities. I really think it is more an issue connected to bureaucracy in the city and how difficult it is to get permitting to serve alcohol and food on a city street.
All "vibrant" cities have car free retail streets, often big ones. I was amazed by how long the pedestrian only streets in Rome and Istanbul were during my trip last month. If the same policy adopted, the entire Queen and Bloor from Yonge to Ossington would be car free, and Yonge from Bloor to Front as well. Yet barring a few small stretches about 50 meters long, there is not a single decent pedestrian only street in Toronto.
People keep talking how walkable downtown Toronto has become. really? For me, the car is still the king. The fact they keep running on Queen even between University and Bathurst proves that.
As to patio restaurants, smaller cities like Montreal put us in shame. Istanbul's outdoor dining scene was simply spectacular, something I just learned. In Toronto, there are so few of them, because the streets belong to the cars, who will get "angry" if one or two lanes are taken. I mean, shouldn't wide streets such as University and Jarvis be lined with patio restaurants in the summer? Nope, they serve as essentially semi-highways from cars from Rosedale and Forest Hill. This is how vibrant Toronto really is.
We feel like a city of 2-3M, not 6 million.
Well said.
Mayors should send their city planners on a trip to Istanbul to study street level vibrancy and interaction. They would come away with a ton of ideas, that are not unattainable in the least. It is easily one of, if not my favorite city on the planet.
I've spent many summers sailing in lake Ontario and I think you get the best view of the Toronto skyline from the lake or centre island. Sometimes me and my friends would talk about the changing skyline - new condos were coming up every few months. One after another - the blue-green glass condos littered the skyline. They all look the same .... row after row of ugly glass condos.
What you have now is this:
The nicer looking building like the ScotiaBank, TD, BMO towers are all blocked from view.
It doesn't help that the ugliest buildings seem to cluster along the lakeshore which hurts day time views IMO. Some nicer ones are going up lately but there are still too many eyesores. That being said, I do like the view when I get off Porter airlines island airport at night the best. Looks really cool lit up. Definitely 3rd best in Canada-US.
Last edited by johnathanc; 10-16-2014 at 10:30 AM..
I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading on here. Not only is Toronto's skyline magnificent and easily at least the 3rd biggest and most impressive in North America, but Toronto is also at least among the top three most most vibrant and bustling cities on the continent with an urban vibe and streetlife that blows away all but a few other cities in the U.S. and Canada. Period.
Have any of you naysayers walked in and around downtown Toronto on a nice day? The sidewalks are so packed with people and activity it's hard to walk sometimes, and there's ALWAYS something interesting going on day and night. Only New York City really has Toronto beat for pedestrian volume and street level activity, and even New York can't offer everything you can find in Toronto. Every walk around the city is an adventure, you never know what you might find just around the corner. Toronto looks and feels like a REAL BIG CITY and that can only be said of a few other cities on the continent.
I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading on here. Not only is Toronto's skyline magnificent and easily at least the 3rd biggest and most impressive in North America, but Toronto is also at least among the top three most most vibrant and bustling cities on the continent with an urban vibe and streetlife that blows away all but a few other cities in the U.S. and Canada. Period.
Have any of you naysayers walked in and around downtown Toronto on a nice day? The sidewalks are so packed with people and activity it's hard to walk sometimes, and there's ALWAYS something interesting going on day and night. Only New York City really has Toronto beat for pedestrian volume and street level activity, and even New York can't offer everything you can find in Toronto. Every walk around the city is an adventure, you never know what you might find just around the corner. Toronto looks and feels like a REAL BIG CITY and that can only be said of a few other cities on the continent.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
