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My god, what exactly are we arguing here? That it's $300 cheaper to live in Chicago than Toronto? The fact of the matter is, America is probably one of the most affordable, if not the most affordable western developed country to live. I used to live in Boston and now live and work in Toronto. I pay a few dollars more every time I visit the grocery store or dine out, but on the whole, I really haven't noticed a difference in standard of living (if anything, it's a little more comfortable in Toronto with newer condo housing, access to free gym, indoor pool, and indoor parking in most residential complexes, and not having to fork out a good chunk of $ every month on health insurance).
I live near the SF bay area, and even when I lived outside of Vancouver (New Westminster), for 2 months, I hardly noticed a difference in prices either.
My god, what exactly are we arguing here? That it's $300 cheaper to live in Chicago than Toronto? The fact of the matter is, America is probably one of the most affordable, if not the most affordable western developed country to live. I used to live in Boston and now live and work in Toronto. I pay a few dollars more every time I visit the grocery store or dine out, but on the whole, I really haven't noticed a difference in standard of living (if anything, it's a little more comfortable in Toronto with newer condo housing, access to free gym, indoor pool, and indoor parking in most residential complexes, and not having to fork out a good chunk of $ every month on health insurance).
Don't forget too - if you're wife gets pregnant you always can get pat leave as well not bad eh
Otherwise as usual I agree with your posts.. Do you shop at No Frills and Dollarama btw? At no frills you can get alot of the grocery items that you'd get at Loblaws/Sobey's/Metro but often paying 30 percent less or more.. I won't buy everything at No Frills but I refuse to pay more for the exact item at one of the more expensive grocery chains. Also, if you are looking for cheap outlet type clothing - give the Dixie outlet mall a shot.. Just prior to my trip I got a Puma BB cap for 7.50 CAD. The thing with general comparisons are they don't take into consideration all the options/nuances available that one can take advantage of as a local in the know - to lower costs.. The good thing about Toronto is its a large city so if you are in the know there are a plethora of places to shop and lower your costs by just doing research.. I'm almost embarrased how cheaply my partner and I furnished our new apartment. It took a bit of time and research but we saved several thousand dollars.
I live near the SF bay area, and even when I lived outside of Vancouver (New Westminster), for 2 months, I hardly noticed a difference in prices either.
Its something some Americans need to beat over with like a dead horse for some reason.. Through my trips to various places in the U.S - the items I found definately and noticeably cheaper is alcohol and cigs (i don't smoke but Cigs are ridiculously priced in Canada so called 'sin' taxes) and also Bostonkid has stated that Cars and insurance are cheaper.
Unless HGTV and my co-worker are both lying, a nice house 20 minutes drive from downtown Philly could cost as little as $300-400k, the same house in Toronto would be at least twice as expensive. My LA friend bought a 3 bedroom house for under $200k (yes, it is about an hour drive away from DTLA), try one hour in any distance from Yonge/Bloor, Waterloo? Hamilton? Barrie? And don't forget mortgage interest in tax deductible in the US. Other consumer products, I can't think of any that is cheaper in Toronto.
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Yes but when you SELL your property in Toronto will you get what you invested and even more back..??
Buy a property in anyplace U.S for 260K and sell for what over time.. 280K..?
Buy a property in Toronto for 650K and sell for what over time 800 or 900K.. right?
Its expensive but R.E is a hot market in T.O and dare I say - as long as we don't get this elusive bubble than if you can afford it you get what you invested into it and than some... If you can't afford it or owning doesn't suit you fortunately for Toronto you have a reasonably priced rental market to choose from... On a separate note - another thing to consider - labour laws in both countries and job stability/security...
Yes but when you SELL your property in Toronto will you get what you invested and even more back..??
Buy a property in anyplace U.S for 260K and sell for what over time.. 280K..?
Buy a property in Toronto for 650K and sell for what over time 800 or 900K.. right?
Its expensive but R.E is a hot market in T.O and dare I say - as long as we don't get this elusive bubble than if you can afford it you get what you invested into it and than some... If you can't afford it or owning doesn't suit you fortunately for Toronto you have a reasonably priced rental market to choose from... On a separate note - another thing to consider - labour laws in both countries and job stability/security...
With the same salary , when you buy a house for 260k you can still afford to enjoy a lot of things while you still live in it; when you buy a house for 650k ( is there still any single family home at this price even before the bidding starts?) you will have to cut back on a lot of things and stay house-poor until you sell it, then what if you still want to live in a house? Most people buy house to live in it, whatever profit you can make from selling it, you will be either too old or too dead to enjoy it as much as you would have been able too when young and energetic, not to mention 2+ hours of your life wasted on commuting on a daily basis if you want to be able to afford a house in Toronto
I get toronto is a great place that offers things many other places can't offer, but defending its downside like it doesn't exist or spinning it into something great is just ridiculous
With the same salary , when you buy a house for 260k you can still afford to enjoy a lot of things while you still live in it; when you buy a house for 650k ( is there still any single family home at this price even before the bidding starts?) you will have to cut back on a lot of things and stay house-poor until you sell it, then what if you still want to live in a house? Most people buy house to live in it, whatever profit you can make from selling it, you will be either too old or too dead to enjoy it as much as you would have been able too when young and energetic, not to mention 2+ hours of your life wasted on commuting on a daily basis if you want to be able to afford a house in Toronto
I get toronto is a great place that offers things many other places can't offer, but defending its downside like it doesn't exist or spinning it into something great is just ridiculous
Actually I don't disagree and am not spinning anything.. I was just giving an example that its not like that 650 or 850K house in Toronto is sold at a loss and that the investment is gone out the window.. Anyway I know enough people who flip their house to make money and simply don't intend to live in it or at least not for very long.. Its not easy for a small family making even a decent wage to afford a house in T.O.. That is an inescapable fact... With that said, Toronto is just a different city than Houston.. Its more international and global so its going to attract a different type so people buying housing aren't just your average working families..... There are actually more millionaires/multimillionaires living in Toronto than Houston for example (but I bet the Houston wealthy are more likely to be native vs T.O) which might come as a surprise to people but is true.. Toronto is probably a more transient place... While it isn't NYC its a few nothes above Houston on the Int scale... Point being can a small family afford to easily live in the heart of cities like NYC or S.F? No they can't so it would be the same story in those places.... The good thing about T.O is at least you have affordable rental options for small families if you want to live in the city unlike some other places. Houston is a city on the rise though - give it another 20 years and I bet you that afforable house will become further afield of the city! Toronto isn't the only large city in Canamerica where people commute 2 hours a day either... I also think the U.S housing market needs to fully recover and as that happens that nice afforable abode close to the heart of things in its large cities won't exactly be as plentiful..
Finally, Toronto is solidly larger than every other city in the U.S except for NYC, L.A and Chicago so its not exactly Kansas and unlike L.A or Chicago, does not have large areas of urban decline...
Here in California there is a severe housing affordability crisis. Since the state has rebounded from the recession, housing prices have gone up again (especially in the Bay Area) but wages have not increased. A lot of people who have dreams of home ownership are leaving the state because it seems like it's becoming less and less of a viable option.
A number of people my age (early 20's and some even in late 20's) are still living at home with their parents to save enough so that they can afford a down payment. I don't know if it's just me but I feel like my generation is less socio-economically free or independent at our age than previous generations were.
Does TO have this same crisis occurring? Is home or condo ownership more attainable in TO than coastal cities of California?
Here in California there is a severe housing affordability crisis. Since the state has rebounded from the recession, housing prices have gone up again (especially in the Bay Area) but wages have not increased. A lot of people who have dreams of home ownership are leaving the state because it seems like it's becoming less and less of a viable option.
A number of people my age (early 20's and some even in late 20's) are still living at home with their parents to save enough so that they can afford a down payment. I don't know if it's just me but I feel like my generation is less socio-economically free or independent at our age than previous generations were.
Does TO have this same crisis occurring? Is home or condo ownership more attainable in TO than coastal cities of California?
Condo is pretty easy to own in Toronto, since new constructions are popping up somewhere all year long, the smallest units ( around 400 sqft) starts at mid-200s, and if you buy pre-construction condos, you only need to put down 5k to start with, and pay down 20% within 2 or more years. Single family home is a different story, pretty much similar to your city's situation.
Here in California there is a severe housing affordability crisis. Since the state has rebounded from the recession, housing prices have gone up again (especially in the Bay Area) but wages have not increased. A lot of people who have dreams of home ownership are leaving the state because it seems like it's becoming less and less of a viable option.
A number of people my age (early 20's and some even in late 20's) are still living at home with their parents to save enough so that they can afford a down payment. I don't know if it's just me but I feel like my generation is less socio-economically free or independent at our age than previous generations were.
Does TO have this same crisis occurring? Is home or condo ownership more attainable in TO than coastal cities of California?
Average detached house price just exceed $1M last month. With a median family income of about $71k in Toronto, what do you think? I don't think it is any less severe than the Bay Area.
Unfortunately unlike Americans, Torontonians don't have any place to move to. There is no Canada version of Texas, Arizona, Atlanta or even Chicago/Philadelphia with much better affordability. Smaller cities with an acceptable cities are extremely expensive too, such as Calgary, Ottawa, well, unless you move to Winnipeg or Regina to enjoy -30/40C long winters that are even far worse than Toronto (A colleague of mine actually did).
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not bad eh 
