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If I'm not mistaken, Olivia Chow was advocating for downtown relief line and nothing else. I was at a mayoral debate last September and the downtown relief line was all she talked about, not a word about LRT... In fact it was John Tory who was advocating his "surface subway" (aka Smart Track) and won the election.
Subway along Hurontario and Brampton is simply financially and economically unfeasible. Currently Hurontario gets about 5000 passengers per hour via its bus network in peak hours. In order to qualify for subway line, a corridor has to reach at least 15,000 in passengers per hour during peak periods. Given how spread out and car-centric Mississauga is right now, it's highly unlikely it will be able to produce that kind of high ridership numbers to justify for a subway line.
If Mississauga were to go with a subway option, the 23 km would most likely cost the city and province an untenable amount, given how expensive and convoluted recent subway extensions have been like in neighboring Toronto. For example, the Scarborough Subway of a mere 7 km will cost the taxpayers $3 billion in construction cost - $1.48 billion from provincial government, $660 million from the federal government, and a controversial 1.6% property tax levy for the city of Toronto. All this for just a "3-stop subway" that is 1/3 of the length of the current Hurontario LRT which will cover 23 km and 26 stations with half the price tag of Scarborough subway.
If we went with the subway option, it could cost the province close to $10 billion or more in construction cost to cover 23 km of underground subway. Entirely unfeasible and unrealistic.
The LRT concept is also widely used in many Nordic cities and countries with colder climates. I was in Stockholm this February and rode its LRT system, and encountered no problems whatsoever under freezing conditions with snow and ice. In fact the Stockholm line had high frequency and very high ridership even in the dead of winter.
LRT's make sense for less dense neighborhoods.
Stockholm has a very extensive underground and elevated system as well. In fact, most cities I've been to have very more extensive subway services than Toronto. The Toronto core area could definitely do with more mass transit.
What's the speed limit and average speed on these LRTs btw?
Streetcars are great for short distances but they are pretty slow and won't cut it when it gets to longer distances.
IMO, Mississauga's downtown to Toronto's downtown core should be linked with some sort of rapid transit such as a subway. tons of people commute from Mississauga to Toronto and that could be a major route.
Pearson to downtown Toronto is also a major route and the UP Express is very expensive and not directly at the airport.
Something that New Delhi has done that I really like is an express line from the city to the airport.
Stockholm has a very extensive underground and elevated system as well. In fact, most cities I've been to have very more extensive subway services than Toronto. The Toronto core area could definitely do with more mass transit.
Let's not compare with European cities - we are so far behind that it causes too much pain! A few days ago we were watching HGTV and my friend was surprise to see "Even Grenoble has fantastic LRTs!" - you know, the city with 150k people! And their LRT looks like this (imagine Barrie Ontario has transit like this ):
And Torontonians look at our new streetcars and take photos of them as if they came from the future. This is why for 95% of the time, I don't travel west of Spadina or east of Jarvis, or north of St Clair because that would waste so much time on our crawling streetcars and buses.
The good thing is the current government is doing something, and at least something is completed or under construction. I myself may not be able to enjoy those, but the next generation will
What's the speed limit and average speed on these LRTs btw?
Streetcars are great for short distances but they are pretty slow and won't cut it when it gets to longer distances.
IMO, Mississauga's downtown to Toronto's downtown core should be linked with some sort of rapid transit such as a subway. tons of people commute from Mississauga to Toronto and that could be a major route.
Pearson to downtown Toronto is also a major route and the UP Express is very expensive and not directly at the airport.
Something that New Delhi has done that I really like is an express line from the city to the airport.
It depends on whether the LRT/streetcar line is grade separated, ROW, or in mixed traffic as well as the spacing distance between stations. Average speed for an LRT on ROW is about 30 km/hr.
For example, the Eglinton Crosstown (under construction) will have an upper speed limit of 28 km/h. It doesn't sound like much but it is in fact faster than average subway speed currently traveling between downtown stations (24 km/hr). http://www.thecrosstown.ca/the-project
As of now, it is highly unlikely we'll see any kind of subway extension to Mississauga, because large areas of land between Mississauga center and Toronto are either industrial sites or low density suburban communities. If there is going to be any new subway line construction, it will most definitely be the Downtown Relief Line within Toronto city proper. As of now, the most realistic option for a direct connection between Mississauga and Toronto are the following:
1. Hurontario LRT that goes from Square One directly to Port Credit GO Transit - with the introduction of 15-min Regional Express Rail on Lakeshore West in the next 5 years, this will pretty much be the fastest option to get to Union from Square One.
2. Eglinton Crosstown extension to Pearson Airport (most likely post-2025) that provides an alternative option to travel from Airport to Toronto via LRT rapid transit.
I'm not sure if you've taken the UP Express yet, but it is already facing capacity issues during the morning and afternoon rush hours. My last UP train back from Pearson was completely full with standing room only. Also, with Presto, it is $19, much cheaper than comparable Airport-Downtown express systems in Stockholm, London, and Tokyo.
UP Express does indeed go directly into the airport. It goes all the way up to Terminal 1, and the walk from the UPE station to the terminal building takes 3-5 min max, all in climate controlled walkways.
Taking the new Union Pearson Express. I've personally been on two round trips already on the UPExpress since its inception, and will be taking my third trip on the line tomorrow to Pearson. So far, service, travel time, reliability, and comfort have been stellar. On one trip back from Pearson, the train was packed with standing room only, and I wished that they could add longer trains to accommodate the increasing ridership, especially due to visitors and tourists arriving from Pearson. Pictures courtesy of Urban Toronto:
Taking the new Union Pearson Express. I've personally been on two round trips already on the UPExpress since its inception, and will be taking my third trip on the line tomorrow to Pearson. So far, service, travel time, reliability, and comfort have been stellar. On one trip back from Pearson, the train was packed with standing room only, and I wished that they could add longer trains to accommodate the increasing ridership, especially due to visitors and tourists arriving from Pearson. Pictures courtesy of Urban Toronto
I can't remember how many posts, comments from all kinds of 'informed' sources in online forums and the comment sections of media outlets that UP would be a colossal failure, a flop, a waste of money you name it.... - I wonder where they are now....
Glad to hear you are enjoying the service though!
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- I wonder where they are now....
