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I dunno - I think there are better ugly candidate cities in N.A than Toronto - especially Old T.O which is really the urban heart of the metro. I'm due for a new set of glasses soon though so perhaps my old glasses are fooling me.
call me cray cray but I don't think what I posted is Toronto's biggest problem. What actually is its biggest problem like many of Canada's largest cities is lack of affordable housing.
I do find those a bit ugly, yes. And looking at those images, I think I can identify why, or at least partly why: It's all of that overhead cabling mess. Yes, I understand it's for the streetcars, but it's still visually unappealing.
This is just a few steps from the link you posted: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.65432...7i16384!8i8192
There also seems to be an odd browning/tannish tinge to the roads due to the material used for the streetcars. I understand that this is for infrastructure purposes, but other cities with streetcars don't have this issue:
I dunno maybe I really need a new set of glasses. Don't get me wrong - Yonge and King has a lot of nice Pre WWII highrise gems but I don't think it is the 'urban heart' of Toronto. Like it or lump it - Y/D is probably the busiest place in the city. It is an attractor and there are lots of shops, eateries, events, shows and concerts there - it has billboards - boohoo who cares lol.
Y/D is clearly much busier with foot traffic, but isn't Yonge/King [area] the financial center of the city, whereas Y/D is more of hangout/commercial/tourist trap? I don't consider a place that has foot traffic made up of people going shopping and eating to necessarily be the center of the city. To me, the financial districts normally are, especially when you add in things like the HHoF, multiple stadiums/arenas
So you aren't exactly saying the structures are ugly but the streetcar cables make the city ugly. I dunno I guess because I grew up in the city I got used to them. They are just part of the fabric. If anything I think it gives it character - streetcars so i'll take em than leave them. I mean Toronto certainly has ugly buildings for sure but I mean really, which city doesn't. To each their own though - I guess beauty is in the eye as they say.
Yes Yonge and King is part of the Fidi but that isn't really where people in the city hang. It's like a work place. DT anyway its Nathan Phillips Square and Y/D. So for me Y/D is a place where people sing, dance, people watch, eat, shop and take in events and concerts. There is a built in stage at Y/D and lots of concerts go on there - especially in the summer. I was there last week and they had gyroscopic optical display. Sometimes they have art displays, boxing matches, food venue's in support of festivals. So I think you may be looking too much at the billboards and not what is going on there as its beating heart - which is a place for people to hang and take in some free entertainment both locals and tourists alike.
I'd also say around the CN tower and Rogers Centre would also be a place a lot of people go. Also parks - if you want to get a more local hangout place try Trinity Bellwoods or High Park. I think Toronto is nodular in terms of 'heart of the city'
So you aren't exactly saying the structures are ugly but the streetcar cables make the city ugly. I dunno I guess because I grew up in the city I got used to them. They are just part of the fabric. If anything I think it gives it character - streetcars so i'll take em than leave them. I mean Toronto certainly has ugly buildings for sure but I mean really, which city doesn't. To each their own though - I guess beauty is in the eye as they say.
Yes Yonge and King is part of the Fidi but that isn't really where people in the city hang. It's like a work place. DT anyway its Nathan Phillips Square and Y/D. So for me Y/D is a place where people sing, dance, people watch, eat, shop and take in events and concerts. There is a built in stage at Y/D and lots of concerts go on there - especially in the summer. I was there last week and they had gyroscopic optical display. Sometimes they have art displays, boxing matches, food venue's in support of festivals. So I think you may be looking too much at the billboards and not what is going on there as its beating heart - which is a place for people to hang and take in some free entertainment both locals and tourists alike.
I'd also say around the CN tower and Rogers Centre would also be a place a lot of people go. Also parks - if you want to get a more local hangout place try Trinity Bellwoods or High Park. I think Toronto is nodular in terms of 'heart of the city'
No, definitely not saying the structures are ugly. I guess it is the streetcar cables and the brown "roads" that do it for me. I agree that it gives it character, and sets it apart from other major cities in the region.
I'll take your word for what people there consider to be the centre of the city, since you live there, and I don't (only visit periodically.) I agree that it's nodular with regards to that, but as a reponse to the poster who brought that up, this is far from unique to Toronto. A lot of major cities, particularly those with large urban cores, are nodular, in the sense that there are multiple strong candidates for "heart of the city." Perhaps not so much in North America (there are a few however,) but it is certainly a thing around the world.
No, definitely not saying the structures are ugly. I guess it is the streetcar cables and the brown "roads" that do it for me. I agree that it gives it character, and sets it apart from other major cities in the region.
I'll take your word for what people there consider to be the centre of the city, since you live there, and I don't (only visit periodically.) I agree that it's nodular with regards to that, but as a reponse to the poster who brought that up, this is far from unique to Toronto. A lot of major cities, particularly those with large urban cores, are nodular, in the sense that there are multiple strong candidates for "heart of the city." Perhaps not so much in North America (there are a few however,) but it is certainly a thing around the world.
I wasn't really saying that Toronto is 'unique' for being nodular but I can think of multiple areas that people congregate in various parts of the city. The Fidi though like around Yong and King is definitely a work nodule. I was listing places I know that people hang in the city. There are certainly more. The islands are very popular in the summer and people go there by ferry en masse.
Anyway thanks for clarifying what you meant. I honestly never even thought of this as unsightly and i've been to dozens of international cities, but I think in the case of T.O my brain just tuned them out because I grew up here. It's good to get outsiders perspective though and I can see what you mean about them being messy.
I find that there are not that many outside destinations in the downtown core. Small nodes and lots of traffic (car/pedestrian) between them. It also need more evergreens/trees in the streets so its not as much naked concrete.
I find that there are not that many outside destinations in the downtown core. Small nodes and lots of traffic (car/pedestrian) between them. It also need more evergreens/trees in the streets so its not as much naked concrete.
There are a few places but it is a somewhat valid argument. The DT core is the most dense district in Canada though, so just A LOT of demand for it to be built up. If you really want to go outdoors and enjoy i think you'll need to travel outside the core to the bigger parks or to the islands. Cherry beach is doable and not too far. I love trees so no debate there. The main arterials generally don't have many, but the smaller residential streets that bisect them usually are well greened.
I'd suggest that the heart of the financial district is more King and Bay, rather than King and Yonge. Head offices of four major banks on each corner, the Stock Exchange a little ways south on Bay, and another major bank's head office a little south of that. King and Yonge is really just another intersection, though it does have a subway stop.
Yonge-Dundas Square (YDS) has become what I think Nathan Phillips Square (NPS) was meant to be but never quite achieved. Part of that was NPS' location--there's nothing there to attract people, unless they have business at City Hall or a nearby office. Yes, it has an attractive fountain in summer, and a skating rink in the winter, but unless there's a festival of some sort or a concert, there's really no reason to go there. To the east is Old City Hall, to the west is the courthouse, and south is an office building and a hotel. It is walkable from either Queen or Osgoode subway stations, or you can take a streetcar, but it's not on a subway line.
Which YDS is. It is easy to get to via the subway--just walk upstairs, and you're there. It is surrounded by all kinds of retail and restaurants that attract people, and it is perfect for celebrations, concerts, and other events. I understand that it has even demonstrated roller derby. Whatever is going on will attract the attention of passers-by, who might be there for a different reason, but nonetheless, have a reason to be in the neighbourhood. Which they probably don't, when it comes to NPS.
I'd suggest that the heart of the financial district is more King and Bay, rather than King and Yonge. Head offices of four major banks on each corner, the Stock Exchange a little ways south on Bay, and another major bank's head office a little south of that. King and Yonge is really just another intersection, though it does have a subway stop.
Yonge-Dundas Square (YDS) has become what I think Nathan Phillips Square (NPS) was meant to be but never quite achieved. Part of that was NPS' location--there's nothing there to attract people, unless they have business at City Hall or a nearby office. Yes, it has an attractive fountain in summer, and a skating rink in the winter, but unless there's a festival of some sort or a concert, there's really no reason to go there. To the east is Old City Hall, to the west is the courthouse, and south is an office building and a hotel. It is walkable from either Queen or Osgoode subway stations, or you can take a streetcar, but it's not on a subway line.
Which YDS is. It is easy to get to via the subway--just walk upstairs, and you're there. It is surrounded by all kinds of retail and restaurants that attract people, and it is perfect for celebrations, concerts, and other events. I understand that it has even demonstrated roller derby. Whatever is going on will attract the attention of passers-by, who might be there for a different reason, but nonetheless, have a reason to be in the neighbourhood. Which they probably don't, when it comes to NPS.
Actually yeah - King and Bay would be more in the heart of the FIDI for sure rather than King and Yonge.
As for Nathan Phillips Sq - Don't forget the Toronto Sign is there now. It has become quite an infamous attractor and ofc skating in the winter - New Years celebrations there. It was the heart of the Pan Am games and is actually a bigger square than Y/D so yeah lots of festivals take place there. I'd say its grown into a much bigger attractor than it was even just 10 years ago.
One only need to look at American alt-left cities like San Francisco, Portland, NYC and Seattle to see what the next five years are going to look like in The Big Smoke.
One only need to look at American alt-left cities like San Francisco, Portland, NYC and Seattle to see what the next five years are going to look like in The Big Smoke.
Can you elaborate on this in terms of how you think Toronto will end up? Toronto has been a left of centre city for decades - nothing has really changed in that regard for a long time. I don't think you should conflate issues in other cities with Toronto. On the other hand, hard right states like West Virginny, Arkansas etc aren't exactly bastions of progress or prosperity
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