Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Toronto like most other cities is a complex vibrate place with many layers. Some of these layers remain pretty hidden from most of us (at least myself) until things starts to come to our attention.
I always informally knew there were people living in Toronto living and working here without proper status, but I was also under the impression that Toronto was a ‘sanctuary city’..
I am no immigration or legal expert, but I am hearing that in our city this promise of Toronto being a ‘sanctuary city’ is being broken as there have been many accounts of Toronto police calling Canadian Boarder and Immigration Services to inform them of people living in Toronto without status which appears to be in direct violation of what a ‘sanctuary city’ would be.
Now I guess most people like me would assume these people would be put back on a plane to where ever they are from as soon as possible. What I have discovered has really worried me and actually has made be ashamed of my city and country. These people appear to be being held without being given the same basic rights as even people convicted of crimes in detetsion centres, including maximum security detention centres ex where we put murders, rapists, drug deals, serial killers and violent offenders until the governments gets the time to deal with this situations. They are held there indefinitely without property updates on when their cases will be heard. This seems absolutely insane to me and does appear to be in violations to the human right's charter. Some of these people have been also reported to be dying while being held by our government of unknown causes. I think in general we hear more about this issue going on in the USA. However, this issue is going on right here in Canada and in Toronto a city that is supposed to be a 'sanctuary city’.
Here are some links to more information on this situation...
What is going on seems wrong! You want to kick someone out of the country do it, but holding someone in a prison until you get around to it without letting them know what is going on is crazy.
Anyone else know anything else about this topic that they want to share? It sickens me that is stuff is happening under the public's radar. If we are going to say we are a ‘sanctuary city’, but not inforce this they we should stop lying about it.
If anyone reading this is in Toronto illegially view this link that helps you be aware of your rights...
I agree holing someone up in detention for a year is an issue. If we can't deport them in a reasonable period of time than perhaps we shouldn't be detaining them until our existing backlog is dealt with. That said, aren't these undocumented migrants failed refugee claimants and people who knowingly allowed their visas to expire? If that Is the case its sort of hard to have sympathy for someone like this. Someone who is a failed refugee claimant is basically someone who has been heard by the Refugee board and a Justice has basically said, look you are not entitled to refugee status in Canada because your case does not fit the requirements of being a refugee. I'm pretty sure the Justice doesn't just make it up as they go along and that the person fails under established refugee conventions to meet that requirement.
Essentially what i'm saying is, if you are a non status refugee and your case has not been heard, sure you should be entitled to benefits and we should be a sanctuary city. If however, your case has been heard and you don't meet requirements, you should as a responsible person make arrangements without haste to go back to your own country. If you are caught and detained because you didn't do that in a reasonable time, than I have a hard time sympathizing this person being sent to a detention. Same thing if you 'allow' your study/work visa to expire. You're knowingly here illegally.
I agree holing someone up in detention for a year is an issue. If we can't deport them in a reasonable period of time than perhaps we shouldn't be detaining them until our existing backlog is dealt with. That said, aren't these undocumented migrants failed refugee claimants and people who knowingly allowed their visas to expire? If that Is the case its sort of hard to have sympathy for someone like this. Someone who is a failed refugee claimant is basically someone who has been heard by the Refugee board and a Justice has basically said, look you are not entitled to refugee status in Canada because your case does not fit the requirements of being a refugee. I'm pretty sure the Justice doesn't just make it up as they go along and that the person fails under established refugee conventions to meet that requirement.
Essentially what i'm saying is, if you are a non status refugee and your case has not been heard, sure you should be entitled to benefits and we should be a sanctuary city. If however, your case has been heard and you don't meet requirements, you should as a responsible person make arrangements without haste to go back to your own country. If you are caught and detained because you didn't do that in a reasonable time, than I have a hard time sympathizing this person being sent to a detention. Same thing if you 'allow' your study/work visa to expire. You're knowingly here illegally.
I am not sure. I still think this is crazy. Honestly I really wondering what the deal is with this? Then again say you can here from somewhere that cost a couple thousand to get too, making that type of money under the table for most people is not that easy. I have also heard they cease their funds. I really wish they make this very very very very clear before hand. Ex they will be sent to jail with serious criminals if they don't leave before a certain time. I really wish I got the full story on this. I heard this story of this 16 year old girl here illegally who reported to the Toronto Police she was raped and they called Canadian Boarder Services on her and has been detained for 2 years. That really is a scary situation to be in and don't wish it on anyone. But this sanctuary claim should be better explained as it appears very misleading.
Well it would certainly be cheaper to deport someone and pay for their airfare than to feed and shelter them for a year while in detention. Without having read or knowing all the facts, is it possible these people in detention are challenging their status through the courts via an appeal? In essence they are slowing down their own deportation, i'm not sure.
As for the definition of a sanctuary city I would agree. We need to clarify what exactly that means. That said, I read that a Police Officer has a responsibility to report a non status migrant to CBSA. If that is the case i'm not sure the City of Toronto has the authority to bypass this. CBSA is a Federal entity. A cop can be Municipal, Provincial or Federal but should we expect our Municipal Police Officers to distinguish themselves from their Provincial/Federal counterparts?
Essentially what i'm saying is, if you are a non status refugee and your case has not been heard, sure you should be entitled to benefits and we should be a sanctuary city.
Those people waiting for their case to be heard are here legally, the term "Santuary city" does not apply to them.
Quote:
If however, your case has been heard and you don't meet requirements, you should as a responsible person make arrangements without haste to go back to your own country. If you are caught and detained because you didn't do that in a reasonable time, than I have a hard time sympathizing this person being sent to a detention. Same thing if you 'allow' your study/work visa to expire. You're knowingly here illegally
These are precisely the people that are benefiting from Toronto being a "sanctuary city" And also other people that entered the country illegally. I really don't know why Toronto wanted to be Sanctuary city, I didn't think it had that large illegal immigrant population like LA or Chicago.Those cities have a long history of illegal immigration and there are probably certain industries that rely on immigrant workers. Plus it would be way to costly to track them down and deport all of them.
While I do sympathize with illegals and specially those that get sent to detention. Some of them probably are scared to go home, I feel bad they would be locked with the worse of our society. But the law is the law, if they were told to go home then they should go. I don't think making our cities sanctuary cities is a good idea. This will only encourage more people to stay here illegally. I heard Vancouver wanted to do this too, I don't know if they already did.
Those people waiting for their case to be heard are here legally, the term "Santuary city" does not apply to them.
These are precisely the people that are benefiting from Toronto being a "sanctuary city" And also other people that entered the country illegally. I really don't know why Toronto wanted to be Sanctuary city, I didn't think it had that large illegal immigrant population like LA or Chicago.Those cities have a long history of illegal immigration and there are probably certain industries that rely on immigrant workers. Plus it would be way to costly to track them down and deport all of them.
While I do sympathize with illegals and specially those that get sent to detention. Some of them probably are scared to go home, I feel bad they would be locked with the worse of our society. But the law is the law, if they were told to go home then they should go. I don't think making our cities sanctuary cities is a good idea. This will only encourage more people to stay here illegally. I heard Vancouver wanted to do this too, I don't know if they already did.
Thanks for the information. Based on what you said I'd have to agree, it probably isn't a good idea to call Toronto a 'sanctuary' city for people who have essentially not met our requirements to be here legally. If you are awaiting your case to be heard, you should be protected but if you have been deemed inadmissible than I can't understand why we would as a city want to bypass what is essentially a Federal government decision that you are not legally entitled to be in Canada.
One year detention Is too long. It is basically asking for some people to have problems that KLM has gotten into (rape, suicide etc), so that really should be streamlined. That said, I can't take the position that well, because these things can happen we should just allow them to walk our streets freely - it would be hard to find them potentially in this case as they'll go into hiding to avoid deportation. In that case we've created bigger problems.
Well it would certainly be cheaper to deport someone and pay for their airfare than to feed and shelter them for a year while in detention. Without having read or knowing all the facts, is it possible these people in detention are challenging their status through the courts via an appeal? In essence they are slowing down their own deportation, i'm not sure.
As for the definition of a sanctuary city I would agree. We need to clarify what exactly that means. That said, I read that a Police Officer has a responsibility to report a non status migrant to CBSA. If that is the case i'm not sure the City of Toronto has the authority to bypass this. CBSA is a Federal entity. A cop can be Municipal, Provincial or Federal but should we expect our Municipal Police Officers to distinguish themselves from their Provincial/Federal counterparts?
If the police are working with Canadian Boarder Service to help deport people without status then I don't think we should call the city a 'sanctuary city’. If the people that are supposed to protect people are going to turn them in ... then there is no sanctuary and we are allowing people to continue to treat undocumented people living in the city unlawfully. I swear I can just tell when walking around the city in certain areas this is something up. Ex people looking a lot poorer then the average person her (not like they live on the street, but look like things are really really hard). At certain parts of the city I swear after stores clothes I actually see people going threw dumpsters trying to salve food thrown out by stores. It is odd especially in this city. I swear when you walk around you notice things a lot more then when driving. A lot of these undocumented people tend to work illegally within their own communities. I remember when I was doing some placements in the community like 10 years ago we were not allowed to take pictures at the community programs we where running for the reason that they were worried that they would be exposing someone who might be at risk for deportation because they were here illegally. I also remembering having a few patients that were here for 20-30 years and got serious sick and where in hospital and could not pay for the services and basically had the option of being deported and literally dying as the services they needed in their birth country would not be available and even if so they would not be able to afford to pay for it. Also Canada usually will not allow someone to be sponsored if they are sick so even when they tried to find charities that were willing to sponsor them the lawyers said it would likely be turned down. Luckily for some of these patients they ended up Catholic hospitals in this city that I think ended up absorbing the cost through donations and the patient appear to be granted sanctuary in the hospital, but literally lived their until death. Life can be pretty messed up for people in these situations.
Thanks for the information. Based on what you said I'd have to agree, it probably isn't a good idea to call Toronto a 'sanctuary' city for people who have essentially not met our requirements to be here legally. If you are awaiting your case to be heard, you should be protected but if you have been deemed inadmissible than I can't understand why we would as a city want to bypass what is essentially a Federal government decision that you are not legally entitled to be in Canada.
One year detention Is too long. It is basically asking for some people to have problems that KLM has gotten into (rape, suicide etc), so that really should be streamlined. That said, I can't take the position that well, because these things can happen we should just allow them to walk our streets freely - it would be hard to find them potentially in this case as they'll go into hiding to avoid deportation. In that case we've created bigger problems.
Oh the wait times are longer... I was watching show on Saturday and they were claiming there have been people detained for up to 8 years. At least 14 people have died while waiting. Also that the bill to get the body home is around $10 000 Canadian? We are paying one way or another ... fly them out. I think the standard university time to decide in 90 days ... but we appear to be taking longer. Honestly just because someone can not get approved does not mean that they don't have a reason to fear their safety going back home. They just may not have enough proof to make the case. It is not a perfect system. I can understand in someone is doing something criminal ex drugs, prostitution, robbery .. assault, but if they are just working a below minimum wage job to save up some cash I don't get why they should be put in jail. In this city we dumb things people would love to have. I honestly don't see what the big deal is in the big picture. Think about how blood hard it is to get here. I just don't like that we are basically allowing these people to be victimized in our city and not have access to justice. This is a lot of bad stuff going on in this city that just goes unnoticed. The idea that someone here illegally could get assaulted and risk being deported or thrown in jail for reporting the crime makes me sick. It is just not right.
If the police are working with Canadian Boarder Service to help deport people without status then I don't think we should call the city a 'sanctuary city’. If the people that are supposed to protect people are going to turn them in ... then there is no sanctuary and we are allowing people to continue to treat undocumented people living in the city unlawfully. I swear I can just tell when walking around the city in certain areas this is something up. Ex people looking a lot poorer then the average person her (not like they live on the street, but look like things are really really hard). At certain parts of the city I swear after stores clothes I actually see people going threw dumpsters trying to salve food thrown out by stores. It is odd especially in this city. I swear when you walk around you notice things a lot more then when driving. A lot of these undocumented people tend to work illegally within their own communities. I remember when I was doing some placements in the community like 10 years ago we were not allowed to take pictures at the community programs we where running for the reason that they were worried that they would be exposing someone who might be at risk for deportation because they were here illegally. I also remembering having a few patients that were here for 20-30 years and got serious sick and where in hospital and could not pay for the services and basically had the option of being deported and literally dying as the services they needed in their birth country would not be available and even if so they would not be able to afford to pay for it. Also Canada usually will not allow someone to be sponsored if they are sick so even when they tried to find charities that were willing to sponsor them the lawyers said it would likely be turned down. Luckily for some of these patients they ended up Catholic hospitals in this city that I think ended up absorbing the cost through donations and the patient appear to be granted sanctuary in the hospital, but literally lived their until death. Life can be pretty messed up for people in these situations.
I feel bad for these people on a human level but i'm not sure we can be everything to everyone. These people are essentially here illegally. They had an opportunity to have their case heard by a Justice and their case was deemed ineligible. The Justice determined that they had some sort of option to avoid persecution in their homeland. When you come here as a Refugee you aren't guaranteed a PR or some last minute reprieve in a 'sanctuary' city, you are guaranteed to have your plight heard.
I'm not sure what else we can do. Its a dangerous precedent if we say, well you know their case was heard and they failed but you know - we'll just circumvent the process and allow them to stay in a 'sanctuary' city.. Its basically sticking the middle finger up at a Federal process we already have in place.
That all said, I still think we shouldn't be detaining people for a year or mixing them in with murderers and rapists. There has to be a more humane and expeditious way of treating illegals so its still worthwhile shining a light on this, and also challenging how these people are treated once they are reported and how long they are detained. Its right to ask questions about this.
As for Police, they work with a variety of other legal agencies, I can see how it would be difficult to expect a Police Officer to break the law and just turn a blind eye on their duty to report. If we ask a Police Officer to turn a blind eye to illegal migrants, what else are we going to ask them to turn a blind eye to when it comes to people breaking the law.
I feel bad for these people on a human level but i'm not sure we can be everything to everyone. These people are essentially here illegally. They had an opportunity to have their case heard by a Justice and their case was deemed ineligible. The Justice determined that they had some sort of option to avoid persecution in their homeland. When you come here as a Refugee you aren't guaranteed a PR or some last minute reprieve in a 'sanctuary' city, you are guaranteed to have your plight heard.
I'm not sure what else we can do. Its a dangerous precedent if we say, well you know their case was heard and they failed but you know - we'll just circumvent the process and allow them to stay in a 'sanctuary' city.. Its basically sticking the middle finger up at a Federal process we already have in place.
That all said, I still think we shouldn't be detaining people for a year or mixing them in with murderers and rapists. There has to be a more humane and expeditious way of treating illegals so its still worthwhile shining a light on this, and also challenging how these people are treated once they are reported and how long they are detained. Its right to ask questions about this.
As for Police, they work with a variety of other legal agencies, I can see how it would be difficult to expect a Police Officer to break the law and just turn a blind eye on their duty to report. If we ask a Police Officer to turn a blind eye to illegal migrants, what else are we going to ask them to turn a blind eye to when it comes to people breaking the law.
I think we better define "Sanctuary" more clearly because honestly is sounds a lot nicer then it seems if a person could still get locked up in jail. Having the risk of ending up in jail and "Sanctuary" just don't relate to me .
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Still think this is crazy....
.
