People in Toronto area (to buy, college, calculating)

[FellowTraveler]

Originally Posted by minibrings

There was an interview with a Canadian comic living in LA in a Toronto rag and he mentioned that he met more people in his building during his first week in LA than in 9 years of living in TOR!

Hey how hard is it to cross the border with your posessions? Did US customs need a lot of paperwork? I don't have too much and I do have my car (but my car was bought in the US so its US compliant).

Heading home soon...

It is not bad at all bringing stuff into the U.S. Last time I moved they could have easily billed me duties for certain things, but they were super nice and didn't. Bringing stuff into Canada is different though. The greed of Canadian customs officials knows no bounds, and they literally look for any excuse to charge you GST on your own personal belongings. And I am not exaggerating, it happened to me.

[mcmastersteve]

You know two arms, two legs, 10 fingers if theie lucky, just kidding. I find Torontonians are just as friendly as any other large metropolis. Sure it is easy to get lost in the concrete jungle and its not small town everyone knows their neighbours. In many cases the hustle and bustle of life in Toronto makes me think Hemingway ws right in describing Toronto as 'new york run by the swiss', in which I would add 'if they were in love in red tape rulemaking'. However I offer in it's defence that once you get to know people whether in the pub or wherever people are gathering you'll find many diverse and interesting people. Key thing is to get out there and start discovering its secrets,

[titan5576]

Originally Posted by FellowTraveler

You will absolutely be in for a shock when you move. That I can guarantee.

I can't stand reading all of these posts from people who say Toronto is friendly, based on their experience of visiting for a week. I am from a small town in Canada, spent 4 years in Toronto for school, moved to the States, moved back to Toronto and then moved back to the States. All in all I spent about 5 years living in Toronto, so I know what I am talking about when it comes to this city.

Toronto is going to seem friendly to you when you visit, because Torontonians are unfailingly polite and courteous when it comes to things like giving directions. I too thought that Toronto was friendly when I visited it for a week. For this reason, I don't necessarily discourage anyone from visiting Toronto if they are so inclined, but living there is an entirely different story.

The "friendliness" you are experiencing when you visit Toronto is just politeness. Canadians are much more polite than Americans. But in fact Toronto is an extremely difficult city to make friends in. I have lived in several places - big cities, suburbs, medium-sized cities, and small towns. I have made friends everywhere except for Toronto.

Torontonians will happily give you directions, but when you move there don't expect them to so much as go out for coffee with you. Even co-workers will treat you icily and will keep their distance from you. Torontonians are terrified of personal or social interaction, and they view any real attempt at friendship with suspicion. They are good at networking though, so if they think you have something tangible to offer them in the form of job opportunities or connections, they will pretend to be your friend for as long as it takes to infiltrate your social circle.

Also, I worked briefly in human resources while there, and was responsible for vetting job candidates. I heard stories of workplace abuse and harrassment from several candidates that exceeded anything I have seen anywhere else. The candidates who had just moved to Toronto from somewhere else seemed happy and well-adjusted. But almost everyone with prior work experience in Toronto had a horror story to tell. Even if they didn't want to tell it, I could read between the lines and I could read the lines on their faces.

This manifests an important reality about Toronto - it is a remarkably predatory environment. There is something very cold, utilitarian, and brutal about people there, both in the way that they network and in their power relations. The moment that someone there really has you on the hook - be they a landlord, boss, or what have you - expect hostility and abuse. I have never encountered the kind of close, in-your-face personal brutality that Torontonians exhibit in these situations anywhere else.

I lived there for 5 years and I never got used to the place. It was a 5-year long culture shock that never ended. At first I couldn't stand it because it wasn't like my small town. But the culture shock was far more pronounced after I returned there following my years of living in America. I had become used to the warm and honest personal relationships I had in America, and by contrast Torontonians were cold, distant, and passive-aggressive. They are ruthlessly efficient at calculating the "what's in it for me?" quotient in every human interaction or relationship.

The truth is you will not be treated rudely by Torontonians if you are not in a power relationship (boss/employee, landlord/tenant) with them. In your daily social interactions, you will never come across the kind of occasional rudeness that you might come across every now and then from an American. But neither will you experience warmth, generosity of spirit, or any of the positive human virtues. If I had to sum up living in Toronto in one word, it would be: anonymity. You can walk the streets and no one will pay much attention. People will avert their eyes if you attempt to meet their gaze. You can work in the same office for months and never get to know your co-workers, or feel that they are at all interested in your life. You can go to school there and sit beside the same person in class for an entire term, and they may chat politely with you for a couple of minutes before class but they would be shocked if you asked them to go out for coffee after class.

If you want to visit Toronto for a week and go home, then by all means do it. Toronto has a fair amount to offer a visitor. But anyone who is reading these boards and is considering moving there needs to know the truth about the place, rather than make due with trite comments about the "friendliness" of Torontonians from people who visited once or twice and then went home.

You could'nt be more right. I was shocked when I moved here. They intentionally intimidate and abuse in most places you go especially in vulnerable situations like during job interviews. Interactions are cold and detached. I am just surprised there are no more random violent crime that is typical when people treat each other this way. Just this past Friday someone tried to ram me off the hyway just just because I was looking to get off my exit. Its like they are too stupid to comprehend that dangerous driving kills! Once in a while you will meet that nice Canadian from a small town but usually they don't stay long or just keep to themselves and their circles.

[afici0nad0]

Originally Posted by FellowTraveler

Torontonians will happily give you directions, but when you move there don't expect them to so much as go out for coffee with you. Even co-workers will treat you icily and will keep their distance from you. Torontonians are terrified of personal or social interaction, and they view any real attempt at friendship with suspicion. They are good at networking though, so if they think you have something tangible to offer them in the form of job opportunities or connections, they will pretend to be your friend for as long as it takes to infiltrate your social circle.

as a canadian raised, and living, in toronto for the past 20 years, i can say that, "yes, i do agree with you. i've seen glimpses of this phenomena."

i can't say that i've experienced it has intensely as you, but, your post did bring back memories, and stories, of friends, as well as myself, attempting to talk to strangers.

i've never found nyc rude. i've always considered that vibe as "real."

of all the places i've visited globally, toronto is "poor" on my social interaction scale.

do i hate toronto? no. however, i still think about how i can move to CA, NV, australia.

[cturtle]

Every comment here is right (except wanderlusting) and every one is wrong. Toronto is the largest and most diverse city in the country. We don't all go to a "How to be a Torontonian" seminar before moving here. One day you might encounter nothing but friendly, helpful people, the next you'll get nothing but cold jerks.

If you've ever been to a major city, you'll find this one isn't much different. Don't expect it to be "small town" friendly, but don't think you're going to get shot for looking at someone the wrong way. Come on up, you'll have plenty of fun.

[Dtrini]

I agree people from Toronto/Ontario are not such nice people I had an experience with someone from there and it was very unpleasant.But I dont believe everyone is like that in Toronto.

[Cornerguy1]

Originally Posted by Dtrini

I agree people from Toronto/Ontario are not such nice people I had an experience with someone from there and it was very unpleasant.But I dont believe everyone is like that in Toronto.

Good thinking..........not a terribly wise move to move assume all 11 million Ontarians are like the one you met.

[ckhthankgod]

I wonder if some of it has to do with the fact that it is an area full of people for so many parts of the world and it takes longer to gain trust due to so many people having to deal with a variety of different people possibly for the first time in their life.

Also, it is an international city. So, it probably comes with the territory.

[cturtle]

Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world. Unfortunately there is no real answer to this question. For the most part people are friendly to each other, but it's a massive city so on any given day you could meet the nicest person you've ever seen, and the meanest.

There's no reason to be afraid walking down the street, but don't expect a small town atmosphere either.

[David001]

I agree with FellowTraveler and the others with their criticisms of Torontonians. I've lived here my whole life, and I've travelled elsewhere. Everyday that I walk the streets, and make casual smiles/eyecontact with both males and females, I'm amazed by the cold stares or quickly averted eyes of my fellow humans. I've developed a thick skin. When in other cities, I note a willingness in others to make eye contact. Not in TO.

I think there's a very emotionally restricted and insecure mentality in this city. Luckily , I've lived here most of my life, so I've developed a network of friends. But I can't imagine moving here.