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Old 05-18-2010, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,973 posts, read 5,199,741 times
Reputation: 1942

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Quote:
Originally Posted by erin3465 View Post
San Francisco is a good case in point. It is much smaller in area than Toronto, and the city proper has a smaller population (although not the metro area), but downtown San Francisco feels more bustling and vibrant than downtown Toronto. This shouldnt be the case, considering Toronto is Canada's first city!
Yeah, but San Francisco is the center of a large metro area and has a small population due to a limited land area of the city proper. San Francisco's downtown is more vibrant that any city in the U.S. outside of New York and Chicago.

Personally I think all the people who are bashing Toronto for being ghetto, or ugly, or expensive, or having bad transit are either haters or lack perspective. Of the major North American cities I have been to I would say Toronto is certainly one of the best. Comparatively speaking it's vibrant, has good transit, is statistically safe, lacks true urban slums, and is not likely any more expensive than other large cities like Boston or San Francisco.

 
Old 05-18-2010, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Toronto > Montreal > Kiev
178 posts, read 522,869 times
Reputation: 237
I agree with all the nay sayers on this board.. This is one of the reasons I left Toronto, after living for 14 years. I couldnt stand it anymore. Unfortunately that`s what Canada is. A sea full of bland landscape and even blander people. So if you want to escape that the only place left is Montreal. The only bad thing about Montreal is the roads (not all of them are repaired on time), otherwise everything else is way ahead, such as public transit, cost of living and variety of activities that are cheap or free.
 
Old 05-18-2010, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Toronto
287 posts, read 1,008,882 times
Reputation: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
No way was Canada founded upon immigration and multiculturalism. These are very recent constructs and are totally modern-day pillars of the Canadian identity.

Canada was founded upon:

1) the need to keep the northern half of North America in British hands and the Yanks at bay

2) the pressing need to keep the French and aboriginal populations of the northern half of North America safely subjugated
I know this is off-topic but wow! Talk about a blanket statement! There may be some truth to these points but I think we might have been founded on slightly more solid principles than that.
 
Old 05-18-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,800 posts, read 37,829,317 times
Reputation: 11577
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggo View Post
I know this is off-topic but wow! Talk about a blanket statement! There may be some truth to these points but I think we might have been founded on slightly more solid principles than that.
It's no more of a blanket statement (or inaccurate) than saying that Canada was founded on principles of multiculturalism and immigration, both of which no one had even heard about in 1867. (Well, perhaps they had heard of immigration - but at that time it was white, British immigration only.)

The Fathers of Confederation were for the most part businessmen who were looking out for their own economic interests.

There is nothing necessarily wrong with that: they were pure products of their era.

And the foundation they laid down has led to one of the world's most successful countries.

But let's not pretend people (and their intentions) were something that they were not. Please.
 
Old 05-18-2010, 04:43 PM
 
39 posts, read 146,608 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cart24 View Post
It is completely natural to defend a city that you personally love and it would be ridiculous for anyone to attempt to convince you otherwise.

Just a quick question on the second part. Does it grind your gears in the same way when Torontonians constantly make disparaging remarks about US cities? Trust me I grew up there and the average TO'tonian would never accept that any US city could be safer, cleaner, more diverse, vibrant, etc..and in this thread they not only mentioned great cities like NYC, SF and Boston, but Detroit which as we know has its issues (for the record I do not see the resemblance between Det and TO at all)

I am wondering if the thread would have received such passionate replies if the title was "Toronto, Looks more like Elbasan" or some other European city? Not saying that you personally are like this T-Dot guy, because you seem intelligent, but you have to admit that I have a point here.
A little late I know, but I'll reply. Yeah, I do really hate the superiority that a lot of Torontonians, and Canadians in general, feel towards Americans. I've been to a lot of cities in the States (and around the world) that I have really loved, and I know that Toronto isn't miles above them, and many times even falls short. I know sometimes Torontonians can be very arrogant when it comes to American cities, and it bothers me. It just also really bothers me (or grinds my gears lol) when some jerk from Chicago comes on here and says that Toronto could never compare to his city.

And, no, I doubt as much debate would have ensued had the title of this thread been comparing Toronto to a city in Europe. The whole big brother/little brother thing between Canada and United States leads to most Canadians being pretty sensitive when compared to the US.
 
Old 05-18-2010, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Toronto
287 posts, read 1,008,882 times
Reputation: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The Fathers of Confederation were for the most part businessmen who were looking out for their own economic interests.

There is nothing necessarily wrong with that: they were pure products of their era.

And the foundation they laid down has led to one of the world's most successful countries.

But let's not pretend people (and their intentions) were something that they were not. Please.
And you could say pretty much the same thing for the US and a lot of other countries. If our foundation and most of our history was based solely on those flimsy principles, I think we'd be in much worse shape then we are now. But...that's a whole other discussion.

Last edited by aggo; 05-18-2010 at 07:17 PM..
 
Old 05-19-2010, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,800 posts, read 37,829,317 times
Reputation: 11577
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggo View Post
And you could say pretty much the same thing for the US and a lot of other countries. .
No argument from me on that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aggo View Post
If our foundation and most of our history was based solely on those flimsy principles, I think we'd be in much worse shape then we are now.
Well, sometimes things just have a way of working out.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 04:42 PM
 
Location: 905
163 posts, read 627,777 times
Reputation: 76
i am a GTA resident, and have been for 25 years.

i love toronto/GTA. however, i don't think this cities landscape is beautiful. as one had described using the words 'industrial/gritty,' i'd have to agree.

i'm currently in vancouver, bc, with my family on a work assignment until the end of 2010. i went to UBC for my undergrad 1999-2003, married my wife (vancouver resident), and had my wedding ceremony/reception in vancouver/richmond.

i love vancouver, and i think the city is beautiful, no question about it, compared to toronto. but, after living here long enough, and cruising through the various greater vancouver cities, i find that the landscape is not much different than toronto (minus the terrain). i wouldn't call toronto and vancouver 'plain vanilla,' but, i can't find another word to describe my thought.

would toronto look like detroit? you know what. my answer would have to be, 'it depends. which area?'

i have this feeling that most cities in the east coast snow belt are going to look and feel very similiar.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 08:16 PM
 
376 posts, read 1,864,276 times
Reputation: 356
Most big city residents think they are better than people not from the city. That is historic. I think this conversation is dead lol. You are all arguing about nothing. Be glad you live in the amazing continent of North America where you can visit cities with ease like NYC, TO, SAN Fran, San Diego, Seattle, Vancouver, Miami, Savannah etc the list goes on and on.............you also can visit amazing places like Lake Louise, Grand Canyon, Hawaiian Islands, Florida Keys....so many beautiful places, so little time. If you want to improve your city go out and do it.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Toronto
1,654 posts, read 5,844,480 times
Reputation: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbandeco View Post
Most big city residents think they are better than people not from the city. That is historic. I think this conversation is dead lol. You are all arguing about nothing. Be glad you live in the amazing continent of North America where you can visit cities with ease like NYC, TO, SAN Fran, San Diego, Seattle, Vancouver, Miami, Savannah etc the list goes on and on.............you also can visit amazing places like Lake Louise, Grand Canyon, Hawaiian Islands, Florida Keys....so many beautiful places, so little time. If you want to improve your city go out and do it.
That's what I'm saying.. a vast majority of these people are very ungrateful for what they have, and have to nitpick at anything they possibly can. They complain their neighborhood is ghetto and gritty, yet they continue to sit on their ass and not do anything about it.. expecting someone else, the government or some program to do it for them.
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