How old is too old? A high-mileage / age question.

[hiero2]

How old is too old? How much mileage is just too much? When does metal fatigue take a toll?

My Camry has been faithful. She's a '95. We've driven her for 20 years now, bought her used. She's got 331k miles on the odo. Still going strong. She's been "totaled" by insurance companies 4 times in her life.

The first time she was totaled was with the original owner. Under 100k, but I forget exactly. Rear-ended. A wrecking yard did a cut-and-paste job with a new rear-end, and snuck her back into the auction market. Where we picked her up. I was soon irate, as they did a really poor job with sticking the new rear end on - issues galore, but we got them fixed. Back then I thought she was a bad deal, and tried to get rid of her, but no takers.

So we kept driving her. When she passed 200k, as reliable as a Swiss watch, as they say, I began to change my mind. She passed 250 - a real milestone! Today she is over 331k miles. Still drives just fine.

But some things have happened this year. And I'm beginning to wonder - does the maintenance cost ever make it a bad value to keep a vehicle? This is the 4th vehicle I've owned over 200k. And we had another in the high 100 range that got hit and "totaled" by the insurance company. I've now had two vehicles over 300k. And the Camry is the queen of mileage at our house.

I've been going on this rule of thumb: if rust isn't involved - then it is always cheaper to maintain an existing vehicle than it is to buy new. So far, it has worked. Sometimes the maintenance was a bit pricier, but the average price over time was still less per mile.

But this Camry has me wondering now. There is a little bit of rust involved, but not what I would have thought. For most of its life, the Camry was either a mid-south vehicle, or a CA vehicle. No rust issues. For the past 10 years, she's been a NE vehicle. Rust is an issue.

Sections of the exhaust have had to be replaced in the past few years. The rear section and muffler got replaced early this summer. The front section was replaced like two years ago and the flex section rusted through AGAIN right after I got the rear section fixed. So had to replace it this summer - again.

Body rust is still pretty minimal. But I had to replace the oil pan earlier this year. I've never heard of a rusted oil pan before - turns out to be not uncommon up here. Last week one of the rear suspension arms broke. Metal fatigue, not rust. The other three had been replaced at some earlier date. But this time the breakage was "catastrophic". It failed while driving at 40+mph, on a two-lane road. Fortunately, there were shoulders, and I was in a gap of traffic, so it was just me and the Camry.

While It was on the lift, I had a walk-under exam to check her out. The gas fill pipe is rusted badly. No telling how much longer it will last, but it doesn't leak yet. The rear suspension hard points have significant rust. Not at failure rust yet - but who knows?

So, I'm wondering to myself, at what point is it no longer a good investment to do the maintenance and keep a car running?

I had a '76 Accord for 18 years. Put 230k on that vehicle. The body rusted out under the driver's side seat pillar. Well, hey, that's a sign! Time for that one to retire, and that was what I did! (Another less than upstanding wrecking yard sold her, as she still ran, and somebody was driving her unregistered! A couple of years later, I got a notice from the police to come pick up my Honda from the impound yard! I said thanks, but no thanks. She needed to go to the crusher.)

But the Camry is still going strong. It's just that she seems to have started breaking - or maybe I've just hit a bad patch for maintenance.

Which of you has driven a car to 400k? Or 500k? What do you think? Is there a point where it would be financially cheaper for me to look around for a lower mileage, and newer, used Toyota?

[dc1538]

When you car becomes a safety hazard for you and/or other drivers it's time to get rid of it regardless of the mileage. You're entering the area of being 'penny wise but pound foolish'.

Rust killing cars is one the disadvantages of living in the Northeast. Regardless of that, no matter you location, at 331k miles, it's safe to say that your Camry has lived it useful life. Don't let nostalgia cloud your judgement. Your Camry is rusting away and the body is worn out.

[rbohm]

age is not important, condition is. i have seen cars a few years old that were in poor condition, and i have seen cars that were more than 100 years old that were in top condition.

[hikernut]

Just one data point. My dad was pretty good at keeping cars running. While I don't think he ever overhauled an engine, he'd do almost any other sort of work on a car.


As I recall, he's usually give up on them around 250k-350k miles.

[hiero2]

After looking around for a while, and asking this question of people, AND considering my own experience with several other high-mileage cars, I've come to a conclusion. Toyotas in general, and Camrys in particular, can go a lot farther than this before you see metal fatigue.

But when rust enters the equation, the answer changes. This car became a NE car about 10 years ago. She still doesn't have significant body rust, just some minor spots. But she does have parts rust. Things like the oil pan, and the gas fill tube. Suspension parts, etc. They get rusty and they quit working, or they freeze up. Or in the case of the oil pan and gas fill tube, they will rot through. It all adds up. So she is on borrowed time. She's still running strong, and things are fixed at the moment. We should be good for another year - so I'll be looking for a younger car during that year - looking to find the right bargain.

Of course, as pointed out, safety is a consideration. Just not a concern for this car. Yet. Maybe sometime in the future. I did have an early Accord that I retired for safety reasons. She was a '78 Honda Accord, and a fine car. But those early years had rust problems. At 235k miles, the driver's seat rear mount pillar rusted through. She was still running, and had miles left - but we were in safety country. She got retired (trade-in). Ironically, the dealer junked her, and the junkyard was less than upstanding. They sold her to someone as a running car. A couple of years later, she turned up in a police impound yard. The police contacted me, as the last registered owner! That wasn't even her last breath. The police must have auctioned her off when nobody picked her up, as another couple of years went by, and she was back in the impound lot! Police contacted me a second time! I didn't nickname her Christine, but it might have been appropriate!

[Stonepa]

I have a Toyota Tacoma with over 600k miles on it. Engine and transmission have never been opened. Clutch has been replaced 3 times. Still runs great, A/C works, etc. I use it to haul firewood at my cabin but I would jump in it and drive it from Washington State to Alaska tomorrow with out a second thought.

I also have a Toyota Land Cruiser 100 with almost 400k miles on it. Same as above - never needed a major repair outside of a new starter. It will run forever.

Rust, wrecks, and poor maintenance are the only things that kill a Toyota.

[fluffypoopoo]

I think vehicle safety features have come a ways since 1995. Even if the car runs fine, I'd be concerned about not having up-to-date tech/safety. Toyotas run forever.

[KSinmyrearviewmirror]

As others have mentioned, your Camry's safety standards are now 23 years' old, no electronic brake control, did it even come with ABS brakes? Had to shop around for our new to market 2000 Tundra LTD to find one with ABS in Aug 1999. She's running @ < 100K miles & 19 years now.

I've owned Toyotas since a new 1975 Hilux SR5. 4 Land Cruisers, one of them for 18 years. When the township began pre-treating our streets for snow, the FJ62's rust began to accelerate, leading to rust in the rear frame. I quickly sold both it & another rust-free 1988 FJ62 from Colorado. There is a cult following for Land Cruisers. Toyota builds them for a 25-year life expectancy around the world. You can rebuild everything mechanical, but rust is another matter. The FJ62 was my wife's DD for 18 years; she still misses it. It had no safety features other than seat belts.

We are likely buying a new Land Cruiser, ~ $78K. Safety features since 2016 include brake assist to alert driver & then automatically brake to avoid collision; adaptive cruise control; blind spot monitoring; 360 camera view. The depreciation per year (following initial year) is ~ $5K/year. So, a certified 2015 could be had for $55K from a Toyota dealer, but would offer the safety standards from its 2007 debut. Feedback from owners who went from 2007-2015 model years to 2016 & newer is that the newer version is worth the cost of admission.

There have been a multitude of safety features added to cars since 1995. Your Camry loyalty is to be admired.